1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

fEarful™ 12/6 & 15/6 enclosure designs - FREE! (Part III) Getting Green!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Thor, Jul 10, 2009.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    I posted this pic in another thread.

    [​IMG]

    The 15/6/1 dominated too much to make a really good sonic match IMO. The whole stack sounded very good though, don't get me wrong. Note that this is not really a fEearful 15/6 either...just a near cousin. I'm going to keep working on this idea, since I can! I've totally reworked the top box in the last few days, so my impressions may be different when I re-try this combo.
     
  2. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    You gain only a little from area, but indeed you can run more watts and also leverage an amp's ability to deliver more watts with the lower load... Various scenarios come up as you enter the midrange as concerns directivity, but nothing too serious.

    I've often said that. I'd probably forgo the M and H section in one or another and use 6ND410 since I biamp and can easily accomodate this, but for passive crossover users with no skills, it gets easier to have full everything including crossover in each cab.
     
  3. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yep. I'd probably approach it a little different in stacking, just for that reason, and treat the 12/6 as my ear-level nearfield and the topbox and 15 as the fortifiers, underneath. But I never did play with that when I had the 3012LF in my test box.
     
  4. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Well, I have another matching 1-15 cab, which is probably just about as easy to lug anyhow, and stacks perfectly. And that rig sounds absolutely great done via biamping.:cool:
     
  5. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Hey, Bill,

    I've had a couple ideas to go with a Deluxe Headcase using these components:

    [​IMG]

    I was wondering what the FR of the 48x24x24 Titan 48 looked like up to 450 Hz or so.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. bkim

    bkim

    Apr 28, 2006
    Sacramento, CA
    I'm wanting to know this too.
     
  7. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    Here's the temporary home for my quad kappalite rig. Should have a couple T48's/OT15's done by next year.

    CIMG3679.


    While not a sleek looking as those waveguides, this rig has sealed off my amp gas for a while. Now it's time to mod my basses...
     
  8. Blues Cat

    Blues Cat Supporting Member

    May 28, 2005
    Katy, Tx
    Dayum
     
  9. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Here's Don of Low Down Sound with the first LDS build of the fEarful 15/6 that Ken Jung snapped the image of and auditioned (I think it's now in the possession of talkbasser rpsands):

    LDSGB156.

    Ken,

    Thanks very much for your kind words and impressions on the LDS build of the 15/6. Here's the waveguides (latest generation of horn flare tech) I recommend for a three-way version:

    JBL PT-B99HF-1, part number 364914-001 - $12.50 shipped - http://www.jblproservice.com/parts.html shown in partially dissasembled fEarful HeadCase, top 6"x6" waveguide:

    [​IMG]

    This is my favorite. It's 6" x 6", has a 90° x 90° dispersion pattern and that means that it spreads the same tonal content you'd hear directly in front of it over a very wide controlled vertical and horizontal area. With even a mid-quality compression driver on it it sounds like a million bucks, very natural and detailed, yet can be as loud as you want it without harshness or brittleness. It's heavenly for lovers of sizzle and detail!

    Next, the 18 Sound XD125, available at LoudspeakersPlus:

    [​IMG]

    This one measures about 8" wide by 6" tall and looks ultra-sexy dead-on. I haven't heard this one, but a real pro who's worked with all of these assures me it's in the same league as the others here, and I've seen graphs that seem to indicate this. It's kind of a sweetheart deal because it comes with an exceptional compression driver on it (or without, if desired). Its pattern is 60° vertical so you need to be a bit further out from the enclosure to hear every bit of the treble, and the same 90° horizontal.

    Last, the Dayton-Parts Express H07E 7" x 7":

    [​IMG]

    This one also sounds incredible. It's got a tighter vertical pattern (50°) so you can't stand practically on top of the enclosure and still hear the same balance of treble, but a little further out and it's very nice indeed! The horizontal is also a little narrower at 80°, but that's still fairly wide. talkbasser xbassmanx has this one, and Passinwind has a slightly smaller but specs-identical version that I sent him.

    Any of these will represent treble more accurately than any of the cheaper conventional horn flares seen in bass cabs and surpass what's heard in a lot of otherwise nice club PA gear as well, though more companies daily are doing waveguides because of their advantages.

    Hope that helps, and again, thanks for hooking up!
     
  10. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    That fEarful should be in my jam room Thursday and I will post an extensive review; chances are good if I'm happy with it I'll have another built with the 18sound XD125 on it to try that out.

    Thank you again for the awesome design!! I can't wait to hack another 30lbs off of my rig as the rest of the summer is going to be ridiculously busy for me.
     
  11. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Cool, rpsands.

    I thought I should mention that last I head the XT120 (waveguide sans driver) and the XD125 are being shipped with an oval template for the cutout that's considerably easier to use than what I have in the plans; it can just be stenciled/drawn onto the baffle and cut out with a jig saw.

    Just get as close as is practical to the midrange driver (true of all of these waveguides, and then make sure when the components are set into their cutouts that they don't overlap though!) and acoustically you'll be golden : }
     
  12. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    ...it could have been mine! :crying: :rolleyes: :D
     
  13. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    ??
     
  14. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    By the way, davio, I just noticed some imposter here on talkbass STOLE yer avatar! ; } ...Time to get a new one? - or - enclosure throwing at ten paces?
     
  15. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Greenboy, I've played with most of those wavegudes (the exceptions being the 90 by 90 JBL and your big midrange waveguide) as well as the 90 by 50 Pyle, and I like them all. The 90 by 50 Pyle will be used in at least two commercial models that I'm working on.

    MCM sells a decent little shallow horn, which will probably show up in my lightweight cabs. It's not a true constant-directivity device but its off-axis is still pretty good:

    http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/54-580

    Parts Express sells round "waveguides" but I do not like them; the throat is poorly designed and causes edginess. The small oval waveguide they sell, shown in your post above, has more uniform off-axis response within its passband along with a much better throat.
     
  16. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Man I love MCM - those guys rock. :) I bought a Carvin Ps10 knockoff from them a few years ago that worked great.
     
  17. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yep. I'm liking it a lot too, above the big midrange waveguide it really matches nicely. Word is though, to always use screw-on compression drivers as it gets some bad valleys if a bolt-on adapter is used.

    Here's the image, folks:

    3997005.

    Thanks for linking that. We've talked about it before and I've had good reports from elsewhere as well. I just forgot to put it into the thread (I think - these things have gotten so long I could be mistaken).

    Yeah, their round ones have also taken flak for resonating unduly, and need to be mass-coated or wrapped just to live in a high-force woofer environment. I'm glad they didn't make the same mistakes with the non-concentrics.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing your designs in the marketplace. I was telling Alex that I've gotten my design to meet mine and others' needs and desires so I probably won't put any more designs out, but the market has many user profiles and a lot of the existing product types could sure use some stirring up!
     
  18. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Greenboy, thanks for posting the image of the MCM horn. What you can't see on the backside is a very thorough bracing system, along with metal threads for the screw-on mount. The only thing I wish they'd done differently is make it a true constant-directivity device.

    I definitely agree with you about avoiding a screw-on adaptor. They cause the exact same problem that the Parts Express round "waveguides" have - namely, a long cylindrical snout that resonates in the 4 kHz ballpark. I never even got to the stage of learning about their flexture, but some Dynamat would probably have cured that. I use Dynamat on the fiberglass DDS waveguides in my home audio models; not postive that it makes an audible difference with music, but if anyone gives 'em a finger-thump they don't ring.

    Thanks for the encouragement on my stuff. Based on feedback from my beta testers I have some tweaking to do before going to market, but the general concept seems to work. As you know, your fingerprints will be all over what I'm doing even though the outward appearance will be quite a bit different.
     
  19. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Shucks, Duke, I'm just walking in the shadows of some real giants anyway, past and present. I'm basically a hack who couldn't figure out why the bass guitar enclosures market hadn't yet caught up with the 1970s ; }
     
  20. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    So it's got a diffraction lip, but the geometry seems to be progressive otherwise. And even without seeing the back it looks very stout.

    Yep. You've probably looked at 1/12-octave-smoothed impulse responses of this, and still all those deep jags.

    Dynamat and the like becomes increasingly interesting for the big midrange waveguide. Lots of surface area, and the midrange driver really getting driven - if not a woofer in the same airspace - will definitely put it to task. One can also use epoxy on roughed-up surface, or PL Premium or elastomeric/monolithic "Snow-Seal" latex paint probably... But Passinwind and I were talking about this today and he found some damping "duct tape" that could be a really easy way to ensure that the interaction isn't audible in output.
     



Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.