1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

fEarful™ 12/6 & 15/6 enclosure designs - FREE! (Part III) Getting Green!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Thor, Jul 10, 2009.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    That's good to hear. I have two D220ti screw-ons that I'd like to play around with. What's the lowest crossover frequency you'd recommend for the Pyle?
     
  2. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Slapper, I would say that the Pyle has very good pattern control down to about 2.5 kHz, and acceptable pattern control for perhaps another octave below that. I'm using it down to about 1.6 kHz. You want to be sure your compression drivers are adequately protected at their resonant frequency.

    Greenboy, the nice thing about Dynamat is the aluminum skin. You end up with constrained layer damping -two stiff layers (the horn itself and that aluminum skin) with a lossy gooey layer in between.
     
  3. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    Sorry for the breif derail: Not too long after greenboy first released the 12/6 designs, I had been emailing Don at LDS about the possibility of buying a cab or two from him and I pointed to these fEarful plans. After that he dropped communication. We had been through a ~10 email convo already so I didn't know what to think. I'm just glad that he came through and agreed to make one of these beasties. I hope it kicks as much as it should.
     
  4. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    That's basically about as low as anyone else is taking it too, and I've seen the impulse graphs... a lot of those are actually using the Selenium D220ti on I think 4th order.
     
  5. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    I'm using 8th order right now.

    Have to love the price on these things. They almost pay for themselves if you work the free shipping option at partsexpress.
     
  6. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Though I can do 8th order, I've pretty much settled on LR24, and if that costs me a 1/12 of an octave passband, so be it ; }

    Yeah, Parts Express has been moving those babies. Almost makes me wish I didn't use a JBL/BMS until I hear it. If you got the dox, the BMS 4552 really comes out ahead of the pack on that guide when trying to go both high and low.
     
  7. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I think that's changed now. Experience with rpsand's 15/6 seems to have him interested in 3012LF, 12/6 and 1212/6.
     
  8. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    I'm pretty much using it because it's there and it should relieve some stress for high spl pa applications. Are there any disadvantages to using higher order slopes?

    I'll upgrade to BMS when I become bored with the Seleniums. That should be reason enough. :)
     
  9. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    Yeah, but now I'm broke and unemployed...what can ya do? :crying:
     
  10. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Not if you are not hearing any. Look at various order filters in WinISD Pro some time on the phase and group delay charts to see how they differ in those regards though. I was just saying that you can only eke out a little more of a lower crossover point by going from LR24 to LR48, and that'd be the only reason for even more protection in this case... but arguably the waveguide itself doesn't gain any performance advantage trying to push it lower anyway...


    Indeed. They are overkill for most bass cab use anyway - most people just need some sheen up there. For me they are not however, because I run some synthy layered stuff through the cab at times, with extended upper response that the BMS excels at. It's kind of an ultimate PA or playback/stereo 1" driver, really. In fact it's really used a lot in serious home systems because of its characteristics.
     
  11. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Hey GB - you know how you can stuff a 3012HO into a super tiny box, and it goes fairly high?

    What would you think about an ultralight cabinet using a 3012HO crossed over fairly low to an 18 sound XD125? Say around 2khz-ish?

    It'd be a not quite as full-range as a fEarful but I think you could get the box size down to ridiculous proportions (maybe 25-30lbs). You'd have some off-axis gaps, but I think it might be a reasonable sacrifice for people who need to one-hand a cab on the bus.
     
  12. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Well, I have a number of cab project profiles of this nature that I know would fit other niches. Once you see all the stuff you can use and understand a lot of the science and art these ideas come easy. But just yesterday in two different threads I kind of said that basically the only itch I needed to scratch was my own - and that was complex enough to achieve. I don't feel like doing the intensive figuring/drawing-up work for stuff I'll never prefer. Then too, I'd feel responsible to answer and clarify and explain even more designs.

    Anyway, that's all work. And that's for businesses. So let the people who need to make cabs for a living do the drawing and figuring and tech support, or let it be the domain of other DIYers who don't see a product around that truly fits their needs and desires : }

    Truthfully, 9/10 of the other enclosure profiles I envision as intellectual excercises that are better than what's out there in the market still just don't seem as cool to me as the fEarfuls. And the other 1/10 that have intrigued me are in the process of being developed by others - right now - or COST TOO MUCH to develop fully.
     
  13. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Which is not to say that I won't informally help others here on talkbass, or sometimes challenge what I might think are wrongly held beliefs or lack of essential knowledge, or just kind of get into the light peer review mode that a few of us seem to be able to handle with each other.
     
  14. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Cool, :) I was thinking I might build a cab like that out of some spare birch plywood I've got from another project and see how it works out. I'll post some details if I get around to dropping the dough on the drivers.
     
  15. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Anyway, it was a good question, rpsands. It kind of codified some things I've been thinking about. The fEarful for me is a really deep experience. I'm thinking about its application as a keyboard enclosure (fEarful or fEaRB and whatever mixer would clobber just about anything I've seen in the keyboard amp category anywhere near the size and weight). I'm also thinking about snagging a 30" or so baritone guitar because as basses go I play F#0 and B0 fretless five- and six-string basses and some tougher chord shapes would then become available to me all over the neck of the fretted instrument.

    Then too, the cab is so amenable to subtle and radical EQ moves that I'm stockpiling a plethora of cool tonal profiles, and if you have good overdrive and distortion capabilities on top of that, the exploration and use of all this seems like it could go on for a lifetime. Kinda like having a crapload of rigs without all the cost and floorspace being taken up ; }
     
  16. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Yeah, I must say having the fEarful/LDS on the way has made me really want a DSP power amp, or a 31 band eq :) The ability to fiddle with everything like that just sounds awesome.

    I might swap out the jack plate on mine and get an IPR DSP 1600 when it comes out and see how that goes.

    I have to say I think the fEarful with the 18 sound horn would demolish as a drum monitor too. You would not believe the crap that E-drummers play through sometimes.
     
  17. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Heh. I'm planning on putting my 15/6/1 cab onstage at the local club later this week just to see how it works as a drum monitor. I gotta sell something off before I can even think about building anything else...:rolleyes:
     
  18. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Passinwind and I were just talking about this yesterday, to solve a drum monitor problem in one of his working situations.
     
  19. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Tell me about the selling stuff ;) I've got two big heavy cabs to sell, my little 1x12 junker, and tons of old PA cabs cluttering up my practice room.

    I bet your 15/6/1 is going to KILL as a drum monitor. When I play back recorded drums through my 3080 even (which is really not as clear in the mids/highs) the ability of the 3015LF to strongly reproduce kick drum is really, really obvious. I bet the great horn and mid will make cymbals sound amazing.
     
  20. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Not including amp modeling (or cab modeling which has huge impact) I've got two 4-band lowshelf-parametric-parametric-highshelf EQ sections in my V-Bass, and even with bands going unused you can cover a lot of territory. Some of the better mutli-effects would really begin to shine through this cab too.

    But a real fun unit (though a bit noisy) would be the old analog ADA MB-1 (or a modded one even). As I recall, it bi-amps, has a fair amount of tube front end overdrive voicing available, and decent EQ and chorus. The Peavey Max preamp is also great with this cab: with biamping, a tube channel and a SS side, each with their own EQ, and user-set blends of the two channels. Quieter too.
     



Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.