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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by greenboy, Oct 1, 2009.
zubbed for more madness ...
Just wanted to pass on something I ran into with grills on my 12/6. When I bought Codgers kit he had made he included a great looking grill from Reliable hardware. It has very tiny holes in it , more metal than air hole area. My cabinet has sounded pretty good but it has seemed like the mids could be more pronounced, for all the ink and hype it just didn't seem that clear in the mids and highs.
Yesterday I cut down an old expanded steel grill from another cabinet to fit my 12/6/1 cab. This is the stuff Greenboy recommends. Much, much better tone! It now sounds balanced from lows to highs, much more like a cab with a dedicated mid should. I sat in front of it for quite a while last night playing different tunes and am impressed. So if you are going to order a grill for one of these get one with the largest holes you can , it does make a difference.
He really did a great job. We also talked about dadoing the cab before hand as I know some guys like Swift were already doing it. I agree with Greenboy, that if you use the proper materials (read that as PL Premium) then there should be no problems with some of the butt-joints and if you're prone to non-precise measurements. Keep in mind that the back once attached to the sides and the bracing reinforces as much as the bracing reinforces it. PL is also expanding and gap filling, so it helps to keep your box air tight. I can attest though that PL is rock solid and when combined with dadoes, makes the box feel like one piece.
I'll also be adding his link to my Wiki along with a whole pile of more details in the next day or two. Sunday should amount to the completion of my 15/6.
And indeed you're correct. I requested that the back left ready for 'final' installation, but not attached. This is because I wanted to go through all the joints with PL Premium myself and I wanted the ease of being able to paint the ports areas, glue the wave deadening material, and work my own way through component placement before putting the back on for good. As this was my first build, I figured it would be easier 'just in case' to do it this way.
As I don't have many clamps of my own to do this me and the builder agreed that the screw and glue method would work best. And yes, last week when I did finally put the back on the cab for good, it worked perfectly.
And yes, I agree that it would be possible to do all the internal work just from the woofer hole.
I wonder what it would really take to blow an 6ND410. I have a closed-back Eminence in my three way 1x15. I have thrown a lot of wattage at it over the last four years. Boosted midrange plus distortion with bridged 1000w amps competing against two 15". It's still working. It has a 2nd order crossover at 800hz.
Yeah, I can see most bassist getting away with just one midrange driver. There is a safety factor using two, but I just can't see it bursting into flames with any sane users.
This has me curious... I'm going to do some power test on the Eminence just to see what it could handle. I'll take it down to 500hz. I never liked it that much anyways...
There's a 90% chance I'll be doing the mod to the PXB2-800 anyway... in the future, mostly because I want the best cab I can have. At this point I really also want to get it done and actually PLAY it for a bit.
Tonight I mounted the corners (after carving down the ones on the front edges to match the thickness of the ply), put the feet on the bottom and also built the input jack panel.
Yes, I'm doing both Speakon and 1/4" jacks, and while I'll be set up to run speakons, I like to have the most connectivity as possible. The 1/4" jacks have been heat-shrinked then sealed with silicon to make them as air tight as possible. The bases of the speakons and the screw mounts have also now been sealed, just in case.
I'll be also sealing the handle plates and jack plate in the same way.
Just curious: why not use the Speakon jacks that also accept 1/4" plugs?
"Here's some to get you started:
Thanks greenboy. I haven't had much time lately, but what little I have read thus far tells me I need to be taking notes!
I tried really hard to get some bad tones out of my 12/6 the other night and only once did I reach up to turn down just in case. We're talking the difference of 2 2x10 cabs vs 12/6 and obviously the 2x10 cabs couldn't keep up as they both now have creased speakers. The 12/6 (sitting on top of an idle 210) was perfect. Very clear, very punchy and everybody could here me just fine without having to crank it (I did anyway )! I was playing close attention especially when using the B string and the 3012 didn't seem to hardly move. If it wasn't for being able to hear myself I would have thought it wasn't even plug up! Keep in mind I am running 600W to this and while I wasn't maxed out on either power amp or preamp, they were both around 7 or 8!
I did notice when things started to move more towards the alpha 6 and it did actually seem to get louder, but that is likely due to never hearing my bass truelly come through at these freq. It wasn't a look up and be disappointed, but more a look up and go "wow, I didn't know I sound like that!" We record every practice and the playback later was almost hard to believe! It's one thing to think you sound good while your playing it's another thing to have a $1000 condenser prove it to you! So sweet!
That's a great question, and I'm glad you asked it.
I actually did look at the combo jacks but they're all two pole and not 4 pole jacks. I wanted the four poll jacks for the open ended notion that at some day I can bi-amp if I want.
I also sometimes wonder if the original design is at all compromised by making one input fit all types of connectors. Using both takes that worry out of the equation but keeps the connectivity if needed.
Also, it would have robbed me of the fun of all the extra soldering, heat shrink and goopy silicone.
Good enough for me!
I'm so intrigued by these designs and am very seriously considering scrapping my whole synth bass amplification setup. I've got a few questions...
1) Will you get considerably more volume out of the 3015LF than you would with the 3012LF?
2) Can you describe the difference in low end response between the 12 and 15?
3) Will they behave differently in the low mids before the 6ND410 crossover is reached?
4) What is the most cost effective way to achieve a good 4 ohm load using these designs?
5) In the case of the 1212/6/1: you'd be feeding the cab a 4 ohm load but all of the mids and highs would be sent to the single 6ND410 and tweeter. How much power can you reasonably expect to run through a 1212/6 cabinet at 4 ohms?
6) Approximately, what would the 1212/6/1 weigh?
7) Where would I want the tweeter crossover set for a 12/6/1 and would it be any different for a 1212/6/1?
8) Where would I want the woofer crossover set for a 12/6/1? Different for 1212/6/1?
Sorry for the barrage of questioning. I've done a lot of reading about this in the last few days but there's a ton that I haven't seen yet.
It makes sound, there are no rattles or any other problems I can see at this point.
What a sexy hunk o' gear!
Step one today was to install the jack-plate. It was lined up and drilled:
I did 'seal the inside of the plate once it was fully installed from the inside.
So to solder up the inputs to the crossover, and then the L-pad, I sidled right on up to the cab with a small table and worked right there:
Next: got everything in place and mounted the boards in the cab and figured out how I wanted to 'path' my wires...
The holes in the bracing DID serve another good purpose. I hate wires rattling around in a cab. I like everything secured:
Everything routed and secure except for the 15...those wires are hanging from the right side. I clipped those wires as short as possible and for final installation. I did the same up on the 6" speaker, soldering the wires right at the opening of the mid-chamber:
I didn't install handles until I got the speaker fully installed. While I was fitting the T-nuts I realized that they gave me full access to the interior while tightening the speaker down. It worked well and I could have one hand behind the T-nut to make sure no trouble started...
Once I did finish that I did 'caulk' the handle holes and install the handles. They were literally a 'press fit' and it worked well:
Everything's installed except for the grill...time to see if this thing actually makes sound:
Final step, Hand cut the gasket material to correct width. It came in 1 & 1/4" inch width and I needed it much narrower:
From there it's simple drill and screw...and done!
Tidy build, nice
Wow... that is absolutely gorgeous!
Hey Green~ have you ever looked into the Beyma 115ND/W Neo for your 15/6 design~ it's specs look great. Thanks.
Thanks for your help, Charlie! My first dip into electronics besides rewiring guitars and basses.
Thanks...it actually is darker than shown in ANY of the pictures, but I can't quite get it to show that way.
I probably went further with details than was needed, but I figure...if its worth doing, it's worth over-doing.
Again, thank you for your time, your plans and your help along the way.
Once you have it complete, and posted I'll definitely try it out. I'm interested to make mine the best possible, even if it means pulling everything apart to do it!
Cool. Glad it could help. Quick comment for those who may build this L-pad or punch it into a L-pad calculator...it's technically 3.5db (thus Greenboy's ~3). As Charlie pointed out in an earlier chapter of the fEarful story, if its still too mid-loud, it would be very easy to work a -6db pad as well (4ohm series, 8ohm parallel, but you might have to consider beefing up the power handling values).
Ok thanks, I'm about to have Don at LDS build me a 15/6/1~ I'm not sure if this has come up or not, but could you recommend a specific tweeter that would work best with this cab? Thanks again.