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fEarful™ 12/6 & 15/6 enclosure designs - FREE! (Part V) On with the Madness!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Chef, Dec 27, 2009.


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  1. byoung

    byoung

    Mar 13, 2005
    Covington, WA
    I need to put corners on, and I'm heading to Lowe's shortly to get the screws. I have a bucket of sharpies (like all self-respecting hackers)-- coloring the screw heads is a great idea.
     
  2. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Paint pens work much better than a Sharpie, IME.
     
  3. Foz

    Foz

    Jul 26, 2008
    Jax FL USA
    Damn that looks nice.... I wish i had one so when someone asked: "is that ostrich?" I could wrinkle my brow and say: "no, I think its Italian".
     
  4. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Very Nice!!!
     
  5. Nordskov

    Nordskov

    Apr 26, 2007
    Denmark
    Hi all.
    What an interesting thread - and long winded :D

    It's nice to see another intellectual approach to basscab design. It's a little different than Bill Fitzmaurices with a direct radiator and close to linear response.
    No need for excessive EQ, though the Omni 10.5 is a sweet sounding, low power cab.

    I have been in touch with GregBach who hasn't finished his 12/6's due to family and other reasons.
    He has kindly donated me one of his semifinished cabs, it only needs drivers and crossover.

    I have three questions.

    1.
    I guess it's the old design with the longer and wider port.
    How does this affect the performance of the cab?
    Is it possible to change this, shorten the shelf and decrease the area by gluing in two pieces of plywood in the port?

    2.
    In the Wiki there are two woofer-mid crossover designs; Codger/himppe and greenboy.
    I don't remember coming across one from Passinwind. How does this look?

    3.
    In Codger/himppes design there is a Zobel circuit to smoothe out the impedance of the mid driver.
    Does this lower the sensivity of the Alpha6A?
    Is there other advantages/disadvantages to this circuit?
     
  6. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    I pulled my design from the WIKI for a variety of reasons. AFAIK, not one single person ever built my actual design (which was only for the 12/6 w/6ND410), except for me. And that's fine, since the voicing was only intended to satisfy one person...;)

    Greenboy's designs are the defaults, and will likely continue to be improved and revised as more people build them. I have yet to hear either the Codger design or any of greenboy's, so I can't really comment on them beyond that.

    Best of luck, and have fun!
     
  7. Nordskov

    Nordskov

    Apr 26, 2007
    Denmark
    Greenboy, did you have any idea about the massive interest for your project? +4000 posts, that's insane :bassist:

    It looks like people are eager to get a more thorough theoretic and technical understanding about their gear.
    I just read some of the Genz-Benz thread where members were discussing reliability of published specs from commercial brands. Some would like the companies to bring educational stuff on their websites instead of more or less dubious claims.
    I like that. Education makes people critical and critical people evolves.

    By making your fEarful project public you showed us that cab design ain't woodoo and can be done by ordinary people like you (no offend ;)) and me, and can be done as good or even better than the well known brands.
    If I had a hat, I'd take it off :)



    The reason for asking was the concern Lemon had about the port length and area, and I thought the revision were to accomodate some of those issues.

    I haven't decided which crossover to use, but if I go with Codger/hippmes design I'll just leave it out. It's easy to retrofit if needed.
    What's the idea behind the 3. order high pass? Power protection of the mid driver?

    So a 2.7mH or 3.3mH low pass coil instead of the 3.0mH in your design will be too far off?
    Dammit, I just found those cheap, low resistance Monacor audio trafos at 2.7mH and 3.3mH, 500W :crying:


    @ Passinwind.
    So after reading all of those +4000 posts, I haven't completely lost my mind and memory.
     
  8. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
  9. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    +1 The 500w of Markbass amps is definitely louder than the GB 600w IMO/IME. Both great amps though.

    However, I wonder if the tone profile of the Genz gear might suit the fEarful stuff better? GB has a weaker low-end than Markbass so I am guessing it might be a better match with the girth of the fEarfuls.
     
  10. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I just aim to please myself and maybe share some observations, concepts and experiences with like-minded individuals. To me, a lot of people can help get noobies going good enough with early rig recommendations and how-to-use concepts that'll allow the relative beginner to get involved in the self-discovery process, and get some experiences under their belt. But for me there weren't many interesting ways to get and keep other types of discussions going that kept me engaged and interested on forums.

    That, and I figured sharing something that could become real tangible stuff might sweep around to influence others and at least for awhile move the face of local awareness quicker. Since I have no corporate/financial interests, but just want to make things that sound good and can potentially address problems some have experienced if not yet having become aware of what's behind those problems, well I thought there was a slight chance I could make a difference and make bring some fun around too.

    No. I did take a good hard look at what was said though, and revisited old research and dug a lot more yet, and consulted with a couple people who had considerably more experience and chops, and went right back to listening with all that in mind, and pounding the gear with signals well beyond what most bassists typically use.

    Tunings haven't gone up an iota (sometimes down in fact), and ports are still considerably larger than what he was suggesting. Mainly, changes have been in other areas, to tweak form factors and phase response for even better modularity across the expanding family of designs, to cross thresholds that might make cabs fit a little better in smaller vehicles without compromising voicing or low frequency extension, and to standardize mid chamber/waveguide spacing.

    Steeper slope control for midrange driver with smoother control over impedance, smaller crossover regions, and for modular use of sub-only versions with a single mid driver, if I recall rightly. If I had convenient accurate measurement equipment like WooferTester Pro instead of mostly working in sim I might be going to higher order designs as long as the parts count and cost didn't rise more than another $15 or $20 because then I'd be confident that accuracy was there to support the effort.

    Maybe someday : \

    Try it and see. People are using far worse than you or I could probably envision. A lot of my choices are to maintain safe impedance loads for multiple cabs, and to keep parts count down for multiple cab configurations. It's a balancing act to allow others to get happening and get pleasing results.

    For my own use, it'll probably continue to be DSP-driven 4th-order LR topology with control of underlap and overlap, as the results are stellar and no additional financial outlay is required, and my system already light and compact {though the Peavey IPR series could stir some gas ; }
     
  11. byoung

    byoung

    Mar 13, 2005
    Covington, WA
    If I can do it, anybody can. Trust me. Talentless hack is my middle name.
     
  12. byoung

    byoung

    Mar 13, 2005
    Covington, WA
    For me, it was all the cutting and drilling that had me stressed out. And then the gluing. And then the crossover and lining. And then hurricane nuts, which spin way too easily. Oh, and cutting the speaker holes.

    The tolex was pretty easy, really.

    If I had a router, and a larger selection of clamps, I think it would have gone a lot smoother. Next cab, I think I'll just get a cutkit.

    But anyhow, it's done. Likely I'll take it to church tomorrow. I'll take some pics, but that'll have to wait for daylight (or what passes for it 'round here).

    This is definitely one of, if not the, best sounding cabs I've ever heard. It's pretty awesome. Thanks greenboy.
     
  13. Quick question for the collective wisdom of the fEarful thread.

    I'm installing the speaker wadding at the moment in my just about finished 12/6. The wadding I'm using is very loose poly stuffing about 6-8 cm thick. Im a little concerned on the effect the tickness will have on the internal volume. Should I be?

    And perhaps the more inteligent question. What would be the signs when I've finished if the wadding is indeed too thick?

    Here's a photo of the wadded top section.

    wadding.
     
  14. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I think the biggest hurdle for me would be the cutting of the wood as I dont have the proper tools... especially the driver holes... no idea how to do that. :ninja:

    The other thing is by the time you buy all the materials, including the drivers, I'm guessing it would only cost another 2 or 3 hundred to have the cab made by a pro outfit like LDS etc who actually know what they are doing. Factor in the stress in not wanting to mess it up and the time required and I'd rather just pony up the extra cash knowing that it is made right.
     
  15. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    For me and these DIY cabs look great but I freeze up when I look at the cross-overs. The wood working part wouldn't be much trouble for me but those darn cross-overs.
     
  16. Swift713

    Swift713

    Dec 4, 2006
    Florence, Ma
    For me the carpentry was a snap but the soldering made me a bit nervous. I'd like to maybe try to build my own crossover from scratch "next time" but just reading the discussions about it makes my head spin. It strikes me what a diverse crowd we have here.
     
  17. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    You can farm out the cross over building and maybe this week, I'll finally get to shooting a pictorial ... FWIW - I'm implementing my x-over in an external box that will leave the cab wired with a 4 pole speakon. That will serve my biamp needs and allow for use with my little GK head. It may be that I'll hard mount it after a while and steal MX21's switching scheme though. If nothing else, doing the external box will make it easier to tweak the crossover if necessary.

    soldering is a skill that just about every bassist hould have under their belt... and of course, you can learn in about 15 minutes with $20 worth of stuff from Rat Schack
     
  18. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    For me, I came up in an era when B3 players were hacking up their keyboard gear to make it easier to transport, and good PA bins were often gouged plywood painted flat black, and there were modded Frankenbasses around with roughly routed pickup cavities and mods were all DIY efforts without much aftermarket niceties. Durability and function were what mattered, not cosmetics. If you could put out the SPL and take to the road that was what mattered.

    Then I worked in music stores and you learned to solder well enough to mod guitars and basses and build custom cables so they held up well and were shielded. A lot of the factory stuff was noisy and you FIXED it to be more musical and provide more sonic options in the bargain. I learned a lot about passive modding back then. And I spent a fair amount of time with spools of quality raw cable and boxes of connectors building all the cables it took to get a PA up and running, mics and instruments feeding the sound machine.

    Built a fair number of guitar cabs, bass bins, subwoofers throughout my time in bands, all with the emphasis of cutting holes that the drivers fit but needed not be perfect holes as long as they fit and the boxes were tuned well to the drivers. Back when you had to calculate all that stuff on paper using formulas that you could find if you looked for the right books.

    EV and JBL were providing plans with their drivers back then, but once you got the gist of things you could tweak things more to your liking. A trail of functional durable boxes left behind in venues and in other players hands, people who were glad to have things work and take the hard knocks without much worry about whether they were going to look good in someone's living room, since they were going to be out in vans and venues anyway.

    You learned stuff because the marketplace either didn't provide what you wanted, or because the better stuff was out of the reach of mere mortals or hadn't been done yet to your satisfaction.

    So today even, I don't care much about the last cosmetic niceties for myself since I'm seeing way cooler things in my minds eye when playing or performing than I could if I was looking at my gear. I suspect some of the real DIY vets who know audio backwards and forwards, whom I admire for how many great projects they have stacked up in their "laboratories", are focused on use and learning, really immersed in the results-driven end of things, and ready to move on to the next project rather than to tweak with veneer.

    I wouldn't make a good luthier, I know that. Once the bass was playing well I'd be playing it ; } ...I admire and appreciate the efforts of those who are wired differently than I, but it doesn't seem to have much impact on where I spend most of my thought and time.
     
  19. Interceptor

    Interceptor Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2005
    Madison, WI
    Shopping list:

    Soldering Iron
    For the size work we're in for such as building crossovers and repairing cables, a 25 Watt iron is perfect. I bought one of these in 1981

    http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103593597

    It has had a few tips replaced over the years, but it also got daily use for the first twenty years of its life. A generic 18 to 25 Watt iron will do fine, and are readily available at Radio Shack.

    Solder
    Two options here; the favorite of us old timers is Kester 60/40, or pick up some generic Radio Shack solder.

    Solder Sucker
    Really a helpful thing in the shop, it allows fast removal of solder. I've used a Soldapullet for decades. Radio Shack has some worthwhile devices as well.

    Bench Rest for the iron
    I use a vintage glass ashtray.

    Method
    Ok, you've got a brand new iron and the tools, now what?
    The first thing is to tin the tip. This is something to get in the habit of doing every time you start soldering, it is the cleaning of the tip and wetting of the iron. Let the iron heat up, it takes a few minutes. While it is heating up, go grab a piece of paper towel and dampen it. Once the iron is nice and hot, melt some solder onto the tip, then wipe the tip clean on the wet paper towel. Clean and shiny tip!

    The best way to think about soldering wire to wire connections is to use solder to seal the connection. The connection should have a bit of mechanical "worthiness" without the solder. What that means is as simple as the wires to be joined ought to get twisted together, then soldered.

    OK, on to soldering with our nice clean iron. The trick is to heat the work, not the solder. Place the tip of the iron underneath the wires to be joined. Give things a few seconds to heat up. Melt solder by touching the solder to the top of the wires. When you've got it right, the solder will flow readily and when it cools the solder ought to be shiny.

    Inspection Phase
    After over thirty years of doing this, I learned that no job is done until it gets through inspection. What to look for here is a shiny solder deposit. Dull means it didn't get hot enough. You can reheat a connection if need be. Sometimes, a little bit of solder melted on the tip is helpful to provide some more hot area.

    It takes a little practice, but is a skill that can easily be mastered in less than an hour.

    Solder sucker
    Oh yeah, things sometimes need to come apart, that's where this comes in. The basics are to heat the connection and once the solder flashes (gets shiny and liquid) suck up what you can. Some connections will need multiple stabs at this, and you might have to pull on it to loosen things up.

    I'm more than willing to coach anyone along on this!

    Jim
     
  20. rumblinbass

    rumblinbass

    Aug 22, 2003
    Wimberley, TX
    +1!

    always keep your tip tinned (or wet) and clean.
    let the heat do the work.
    flux is your friend.
    at first it can intimidating but you will be surprised at how quickly you become comfortable.

    oh, you will get burned...accept it.
     



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