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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Barcode, Mar 17, 2010.
It sure is. But that's not what I was asking, was it?
Ah I see you have a B on that... as in Braaaainzzzzz.
So you don't think I need the 1515/66 to hang with the 810? This may have been covered a few threads ago, but I haven't found anything yet.
If you want the midrange sensitivity of an 8x10 you will need two 6nd410s.
I have an SVT 8x10 [actually two 4x10's stacked] and my 1515/66 does not hang with it... it demolishes the Ampeg 8x10 in every respect. My 4x10's are on Craig's List and the 2x15 is headed that way.
The Kustom 8x10 looks like its more capable than the traditional Ampeg SVT 8x10 in the lows [that's a port at the bottom right?], but I do not know that to be true. In any event, I very much doubt it could keep up with a 15/6 in this regard [45 to 125 Hz]. As to upper mids, one 6ND410 can put out an impressive amount [we're talking the 600 to 1,000 Hz range - think about how loud a 180 watts AES speaker driven in this "guitar range" must be] but as related above I agree that surpassing with a 15/6, eight 10" speakers - even of modest capability in this regard - aint gonna happen. But, how much upper mid do you dial in? I think I could get by no problem in this range. YMMV
If I did miss something in comparison I reckon it'd be in the low growly mids [+/-250Hz]. This is where the 8x10 format excels in my experience.
That said, my guess is you will be impressed with a 15/6 - and that it will likely satisfy in comparison - if I am wrong adding another with reverse baffle for stacking the mids inline vertically would leave your old cab in the dust.... and crying.
No really - your old cab will lay in the dust and cry.
Going to run our new Cellist through my 12/6 tonight. Really wish I had a cleaner more accurate amp to run him through, but the RBI should do fine. The studio like clarity of these cabs still blows my mind. I'll let you know how an electric Cello sounds, but I bet is sounds like a, well, electric Cello, just LOUD!
and of course subscribed to the 'boogaloo'!
My guess is that your 12/6 is going to be exceptionally good for amplifying a cello.
OK - I'm getting close to finishing my fEarful 12/6. I've read lots about bi-amping and am planning to go that direction. I'm curious to learn from you bi-amp aficionados what procedure you use for set-up. I have both a BBE 383 and a Yamaha PB-1 that I will be working with. Do you start with everything flat and get the bi-amp part set first? Do you work with each speaker separately? Any advice and experience welcome
Yes - but set the sensitivity of the HF side quite low to begin - these are the speakers you will blow if you muck things up.
Start off exploring x'points from 600 to 800Hz. If you are you using the 6ND410 also explore much lower x points - for example try 315 Hz or even 250 Hz - this driver has a wonderful "growl" capability. If you are using the Alpha6 be more careful about low x'points.
A stereo 32 band graphic EQ is a handy tool to shop around for what you like even if you are going to end up using something else like amp DSP.
Here is an example of very low xover using the 6ND410 that sounds great to my ears. The amp is set with the LF into Channel 1 at full and HF Channel at half mast - YMMV
*note the higher output setting on the LF EQ channel, and the bump around 60 Hz on the Avalon
The bbe and the yamaha have crossover slopes of 12db; I wouldn't go much under 500hz with that, myself.
Well I have to say I was quite disappointed! I can't really say it was the 12/6 that was the problem as the EQ on the RBI is pretty much worthless in a live setting IMO. Great when recording, but Treb just adds hiss, Mid just adds a somewhat useless high-mid and the bass just adds boom. I eventually just gave up on the EQ and started trying to dial in the right amount of blend with drive and presence and match it with the output, but that became tiring as the only real result was a bit of warmth on the low and reduction in clarity on the high end! He was using a large amount of effects in front of it which I am sure didn't help, but all night I just kept watching the fuse light up behind the 3012! It was kind of neat in that "oh sht what's gonna happen next?!" regard, but became more of a "nothing I can do about it now" thing as the night progressed. I almost went over and tried to adjust the settings a bit, but he was already being whiny about not being able to hear himself , so I just figured that if the cab can't take it better to know now. I think the cab is fine, although I haven't pulled the xover out to see if it's fried. Doubt it though. I am sure a bi-amped situation (with some kind of tweet) would have been better for this, but I was running almost a full 500W from my QSC GX5 and it wasn't very loud, but the cab seemed to working quite a bit. I think the big problem with him not hearing himself was he was using the same chorus/delay/etc. that the guitar player is using so it really just became one large sound with only the guitar player knowing the tunes well. It made for a rough night for the drummer and I since we couldn't tell who we should follow on these sudden changes!
So, on the bi-amp question.... could I bi-amp 2 12/6 by running 2 alpha 6 on 1 channel and 2 3012 on the other? As far as I know my GX5 doesn't have selectable crossover freq. it's just ch1 LF and ch2 HF xover at 100hz. That wouldn't be a very good idea would it? It guess it would be fine as far as the amp does go down to 4ohms, but I would be splitting 500w between 2 3012s as opposed to ~400w going to each....I think....
I also must say that when I finally get something other than this RBI, I am going to look into 6nd410. I am starting to miss that bit of a growl from tens, but still going to blame that on the RBI. Could the QSC be sucking some of my mids? Surely not, but this wouldn't be the first time I've been surprised.
IF you had a crossover you could do it but do not use the built in one.
The GX5 could not be sucking your mids but the RBI, IIRC, has a lot of issues:
-low noise floor
-limited tone shaping
One definite possibility is that the crossover got fried and the 6a is not working at all. Double check that.
I'm pretty sure the 6a was working all night, but if the crossover fried it would stop lighting up correct? I was keeping an eye out for smoke etc. and it lite up all the way to the end of the last song (not continuously, but frequently), but it's just the fuse preventing excess power from hitting the 6a right?
I have not looked at the xover extensively in mine, but if the bulb was lighting up regularly it was almost surely applying a massive cut to the midrange when it lit up. I believe that's the way it works; any excess power over a threshold goes into the bulb.
That dbx graphic related to the post above is +/- 12 dB [see pic below] at its more aggressive setting... which matches the units you reference.
This set up worked fine for me - perhaps because the 6ND410 is down about 16 dB off peak by the time you get to 200 Hz all on its own.
YMMV but letting this speaker growl a bit at its bottom end sounds good to me - a useful coloration option.
My $0.02 its worth listening to what happens x'd this low if the knob is handy - just be careful with the volume you use at first when checking things out. I predict you will be surprised at how good the 6ND410 sounds in this frequency range.
Hey folks, I have received a few requests for cut kits in the past 6 months but have not been able to make them. However, things are warming up here and I'm ready to take some orders. I told people I would post here when the time came, so here we are. PM me for details.
As others here can attest, Matt does great work! He did the wood work on a couple cabs for me a few months back and they're solid as a rock.
Hey Swift; just a suggestion here but if you wanted to post a ballpark price list and the woods you have available, and so forth, that would be awesome.