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Fender 300 vs 1200

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jow83, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    I have decided to update my hartke/home built (know an engineer) eminance cabs rig, and have been looking at getting a Fender Bassman 300 - I have played one of these recently and loved the sound i got out of my Bongo and my Ergodine basses. For the kind of venues we are playing i need to use either two cab's (115 % 410 or 2x410) or on 810 cab. Would the fender be able to power an 810 (prob arround 800 watts 4 ohm) with out risk? The other option is to get the Bassman 1200 and and an Ampeg 810 - but i haven't been able to find one of these in a store to play yet and i doubt it would sound exactly the same as the 300.

    Would the 300 be able to power a 810 box, or would I be risking damaging the head? Also could you guys recomend any specific speakers (810s or 2x410 or 2x410 + 115 combos) that the 300 would sound great through?

    Also could i jsut ask a technical question the guy at the store wasn't able to answer, if the two speaker outs on the 300 are parallel does this mean it can run two 410 8 ohm boxes at 4 ohms output?
  2. I am thinking you are talknig about the Fender 300 Pro, all tube head?

    The tube model shouldnt have any troubles powering a a pair of 4x10's or 8x10, or even a 115 and a 410. All tube heads are generally more powerful then Solidstate heads... Check out the Discusion " Head Room" in this forum.

    And yes the 2 outputs do go down to 4ohms- the tube versions, adn the SS bass mans go down to two ohms- so you can run 2x 4ohm cabinets if you like.

    Hope thats of some help.
  3. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    Thanks for your reply, I have jsut read through most of the head room post and recognise that a tube amp can 'exceed' its power rating due to the nature of the tube power amp, but isn't 300w @ 4ohms into an 800w @ 4ohms cab pushing it a bit hard? are there any members on this forum that use Bassman 300 heads or sun 300t's? what speakers to you use?

    I have a further question parallel speaker outs (my current amp is stereo), the Fender 300 puts out 300w out of two outputs in parallel, is this enough juice to power 2 400 watt cabs? the way i understand tube amps (very basically...) when switching the impedance the output (watts) stay the same? so if im using 2 400w 8ohm cabs, running in parallel does this mean im running 800 watts at 4ohms or 400 watts at 4ohms?

    I just don't want to go out an buy a tube amp and and an 810 and blow the head or the speakers up!

    I guess the whole tube thing jsut confuse me, I know how to work with SS poweramps but i love the sound of this tube amp.
  4. If you are running say 800w @4ohm cabinet- with a 300w @4ohm head- then you are runnig 300w into that cabinet.

    The power rating of cetain cabinets is only there as a recomendation- yes lets say "Ampegs" suck up alot of juice, with their high powered cabs, because they are inefficiant. Where as psuhing 300w through an Epifani will yeild more volume, because the cabinet is more efficiant.

    The power rating on the cab is really only a recomendation of the maximum power you should push through it. You can damage a speaker by over powering and or over extending it- but you can't damage it by underpowering. Your head however can be damaged if you crank it to the point beyond clipping (this may also damage the cab). Pretty safe with tube heads though as you may have read- as they clip much differently to solid state amps.

    So you would be pushing 300w of all tube pwoer into 2x400w cabs- in theory thats 150w for each cabinet- add the fact that your using all tube, it's probably closer to using 225w per cab using a solid state head in terms of comparison in volume, maybe more. I'm no expert!..

    I would however love an Ampeg SVT Classic and a pair of 8x10's if only the head didnt cost like 5 grand here in Australia :rollno:
  5. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    tell me about it, the best price i can find on an ampeg 810 out here is 3k, i think i could get one shipped from america for cheaper then that!

    from what i know, you can't dammage the speakers by underpowering but you can dammage the head... something about the speakers using up too much power and creating a short in the head, resulting in no more tube head. I guess this is what i am really worried about, not blowing the speakers.

    The Bassman 1200 has the same preamp and eq stage its jsut the power amp thats different (SS), but it runs 800 watts @ 4 ohms, meaning i can power a ampeg or other 810 box. Only thing is im guessing even with the same tube pre and the same graphic eq its not going to sound much like the 300.
  6. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    wow i think i have tracked down a NEW sunn 300t that had been sitting in the fender australia warehouse or something and is now onsale at a music store, sounds a bit sus but i think i'll check it out next week.
  7. primus_55


    Dec 28, 2004
    I share your pain
  8. For your info, I just acquired a SUNN 300T ( Fender Pro 300 ) and run it through a 8X8 Cabinet rated at 800 watts 4 ohms. t seems like an excellent match so far, the cabinet handles the power of the head very well.

    This Head can easily push two cabinets with no problem or effort. This is a very powerful tube head, like the other Tube heads, Ampeg SVT, etc. etc.

    The Fender Pro 1200 has tons of power also but I found it does not get the warmth of the brother the Fender Pro 300 ( or SUNN 300T ). This is still an excellent head.
  9. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    Pushing tube amps is safe to do, don't worry. Just go easy on the bass control at that point.
  10. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    yeh i've been doing a lot of reading up on tube amps today and it seems people are using 300t or bassman 300's (or stv2 etc) to power two svt810's and stuff... so should be cool, thanks for your help guys.

    gonna call this music shop tomorrow and see what the deal with them having new sunn 300ts and 1200s, seems a bit too good to be true... would be awesome if it was for real tho.
  11. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    this amp went on sat, gah!

    back to looking for a new amp.
  12. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    wow, is that yours?

    yeh im from syd man :) hard to get good bass gear our here too (that doesn't cost over 4 grand anyway)

    i wish i lived in melb, for that price i would def check it out!

    thanks dude :)
  13. Hehehe No it's not mine, really, really wish it was mine though.
    As much as I love tube gear- I really really love the sound
    of Gallien Krueger heads... Infact I am working on a deal on a 800RB
    at the moment. So this one's out for me ;)

    I wouldn't mind one of them cabs though :)
  14. Sorry Joe,

    But while I am at it I'll add this as well...

    Ebay Item number: 7327776523
    (sorry link didnt work)

    It's for an Ashdown ABM500, which although not a tube amp is 575w of warm gooieness, it has a very good tube preamp- and is very wam and deep sounding. Very powerfull also- Ashdown is rather conservitive in their power ratings. I played this though a single 4x10 and it was loud as hell without pushing volume past halfway.
  15. jow83


    Jun 3, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    yeh i was thinking that 610 would be a good investment for the price too, do you think if i bought the head and decided it was not for me i could sell it for a similar price? I have emailed the guy and asked for the serial number so hopefully i will be able to track down the year to a bit closer then "70's or 80's." If any more knowledgeable (then myself) people on the board could have a quick look and tell me their opinions id appreciate it!
  16. Well it's not a 90's model- I am quiet sure the 90's models come in an angled
    case- not a rectangular shaped such as that one. It looks pretty old also going by the back of it- Cant give you a date on it as it's not my area of expertes.

    I have no doubt if you brought it you could sell it for what your got it for, or even more- They are quiet popular- but Rare at the same time... Look at the list of pro's that use SVT heads- they sure are in demand.

    Even better, if you buy it, and dont like it let me know ;) I'll gladly take it of your hands- for a price of course- I just cant afford it right now.
  17. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    I just snagged a Trace Elliot V8 (400 watt all tube, only about 75 made) for $1800. It's all about been patient and waiting till you find a good deal :)

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