Fender '65 - Value on these puppies?

It's inferior, probably, but these are all different from each other. The wear and warpage are also factors. There's nothing special about vintage Fenders as players except in between the owner's ears.

BTW, a lot of stuff looks fishy to me with this, starting with the finish. I have a 100% authentic '65 Fender sunburst and it looks nothing like that.

 

ditto, I have a 64 P and a 65 J, and the burst is not like that at all, more red, more like a gold rather than yellow now

 

it looks exactly like the one at GC in San Francisco, color-wise! (i was suspicious as well)

 

Based on that burst, I'd guess that to be a '66. $6,500 is the very high end for that bass.

 

A '65 should have an L serial number, the application of the paint looks wrong, I don't think this is the original pickguard, etc., etc.

It's been a long time since I was doing authentication, so I'll wait for the guys who've been keeping it up to chime in.

 

Yes, appears to be this to me too.

This style of burst is dubbed "target burst" among the vintage-y folks. The more extreme yellow, typical with 66 and 67. Also that particular darker tort seems more consistant with 66-later.

 

Yeah, someone's trying to pull the "pre-CBS" angle here.

This isn't a '65.

CBS didn't actually take over production until ~1966.

 

The body finish looks like the bad bursts the japanese plants used to mask a plywood body in the 80s. I'd pass on it at 1000 bucks.

 

^^ Agreed and that is why the dealer said price negotiable. Set it at the high end and left room to knock it down through haggling.

A couple of the 60's era basses I have had the pleasure to play had a special feel to them. A worn in comfortable feel with an exceptionally organic sound (hard to put into words, honestly). I have not felt any new bass get too close to that magic feeling the vintage instruments had. You really can't manufacture that (although Fender's Road Worn series do, IMO, sort of have a similar feel...but just not the real thing).

Then again I am sure there are some vintage mediocre feeling instruments out there. To go to the blue jean analogy, you could buy brand new "worn in" jeans and they may look like an old pair of worn in jeans. But compare that to a pair you have owned and worn in for years. Try both pairs on and you will then realize the difference between a new bass and a 1962 vintage Fender.

Also with a vintage instrument you have to worry about fretboard hump on the higher fret area, crumbling electronics and other such issues that 50+ year old instruments have.

If I had the cash I would buy one in a New York minute!

 

that bass looks 100% original to me, but IMO, it does appear to be a '66. and BTW, the pickguard is an original one.

 

Yeah, it's glaringly not a '65.

The reason I mentioned the pickguard is the when Fender had to dump the nitrocellulose ones in 1964, the transitional white plastic replacements had very distinctive edges due, apparently, to differences in the black and white laminate thicknesses or cut contour. All the genuine L-series guitars I've seen with white pickguards are like that, including mine. I couldn't remember if the tortoiseshell pickguards were like that or not, but this one isn't.

When I was authenticating this stuff, it was back when there were only two categories: Pre-CBS and "who cares?" Whatever this is, I definitely knew it wasn't in the former. I never thought I'd see the day people would bother to fake post-'65 Fenders, but maybe I've just lived too long.

 

I agree, that burst looks more like a 1966-1968 finish.
Nothing like a 1965.

 

Well, that's the opinion of one player, not the community. But as always with all eras of Fenders, there are ones that are dreamy and ones that are turds. The one thing I love about the old basses is how light and resonant the old wood is. I do have modern instruments as well as a vintage Jazz, and I can't get over how much the old J still sounds fantastic.
But Fender has been making a fantastic Am Standard line, I think they are a great buy.

Horace is one of my most favorite players too. I was ecstatic when I got to see The Specials this year. He played a newer (2008 later) Am Standard Jazz, the same one in your picture, and he had an awesome fat sound.

 

To the extent they know what they're talking about.

Old Fenders were hand-made to completely inconsistent standards by various individuals, and the woods were frequently a matter of whoever had the lowest bid. The pickup winding was almost random, with huge spreads in DCR and winding quality. There's nothing magic about the hardware.

They were so drastically inconsistent that the guys at FMIC who do the "vintage reissue" design stuff have told me that there's nothing consistent enough in their collection of true vintage examples to really get a bead on, so they just sort of pick arbitrary specs that are at best "interpretive."

So, there's no such thing as "vintage" in the first place. There's just "old."

Given these facts (not opinions), it's hard to say how any random example can be anything predictably wonderful and awesome. And in the old days, before they became retroactively magic, I saw a lot that were real junk.

So, as I've asked at least a hundred times before, if they are so wonderful, explain exactly how and why that can be.

Nobody can.

And if you can't make a compelling case, don't expect an intelligent person to pay any attention to you.

The only remotely plausible answer I've received yet (and it's pretty weak) is that in the intervening years, all the really bad ones, the ones with the twisted necks and punky body wood that wouldn't hold screws and sloppy pickups that went dead or fell apart have been chucked in the landfill or have been parted out, and only the exceptional ones remain intact. There's a lot of objections you can make to that, but it at least makes a modicum of sense.

 

I disagree with just about everything you said, but you're entitled to you opinion.

 

+1

 

Bongo, so just to clarify.. you think vintage Fenders aren't what they're all cracked up to be? Kidding. I don't think the inconsistencies in vintage Fenders are nearly as bad as you do. I've found many special old Fenders in my life. I own several, and I have no doubt you'd agree all of mine are great basses if you had the chance to play and hear them.

It's funny, because I actually got sick of playing newish Fenders after a while because of all their inconsistencies (mostly in the '90s), lol. I've actually owned a few Custom Shops that I thought were crap (at least for the price). I'm pretty sure I could go to GC tomorrow and find a good brand new piece of Fender firewood. I will say that the quality has improved in the recent years though (I think after '08? or so).

john_k10 has surely had his hands on way more vintage Fenders than me and probably just about anyone on here! If he disagrees with you that most vintage Fenders are junk, then I'll have to side with the guy who has the most experience with them (and my own experience of course).