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Fight vs. Flight

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Eric Cioe, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. *Crying*I owe this all to the people that make fun of me because a good portion of my text is unreadable. Thank you, thank you.
  2. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Less than three years ago, I had a guy approach me as I was getting in my car and told me to hand over my wallet and the keys. He had a medium sized knife in his hands. He was also a tweeker. My personal pride was never an issue. It was simply defending things I have acquired in my life. If you consider that being prideful, so be it.

    Anyway, I am no karate kid, or pro fighter, but a brief scuffle ensued, and the dude eventually left missing a few teeth. I was also injured, but I never felt that my life was in danger. After the fact, I stayed on the scene and called the police. The dude had dropped his weapon, and so the police collected it, and told me they would find this guy. I never heard from the police about it again. I did receive a call from one cop advising me never to fight back again. For another two years, I got in and out of my car in the same spot. I was never assaulted again.

    I have never been confronted by someone with a gun, so I can not say exactly what I would do. I would most likely assess the individual, and their command of the weapon, before I decided how to handle myself.

  3. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001

    OK, I smell BS, you said you were in a nice section of Boston??? ;)

    j/k I love Boston.
  4. Davehenning


    Aug 9, 2001
    Los Angeles


    I lived in Boston for several years, so I can relate. But I do like the city.

    Yes, I was pushed by two guys into the alley behind the Greek restaurant on Hereford St. between Newbury and Boylston while on the way to my apartment on Newbury. Before I could react, there was a gun and a knife. No argument coming from me! Here's my money, take it! It was About 3 or 4 am. Luckily, a good citizen found my drivers license in Kenmore Square and mailed it to me.

    that was in '92 or '93.
  5. LoJoe


    Sep 5, 2002
    Concord, NC USA.
    I'll have to agree with that post. I'll also chalk up some of the bravado responses to youth and lack of an experience. You have to live it to know what you'd do. When I was 16 (back in the dark ages) I had worked late in a fast food restaurant changing all of the grease in the fryers and restocking from the freezers. On my way to my car at about 1:30AM, some smelly dude around 30'ish with about 30 pounds on me stepped out from behind the dumpster and grabbed me by the back of my hair and held a Buck lockblade knife with the tip just at the center/bottom of my ribcage right over my heart. I'm not ashamed to say that as a football player and member of the wrestling team as well, the first brave thing I did was piss all over myself. He got my wallet, my watch, and my ballcap. I tried to give him my car keys too. I begged him not to kill me or hurt me, I started blubbering and begging like a spanked toddler. In the end, he just kicked me in the groin shoved me to the ground and dissapeared again with my stuff and about 40 bucks. I was totally submissive but I'm here 30 years later to tell about it. Now 30 years later, I've had life experiences, hand to hand combat training and firearms training courtesy of the military, I weigh an additional 25 pounds from a lifelong habit of weight training. What difference did it make? A few months ago my wife and I had a late dinner in the city. As we were walking to our car parked on a backstreet, some "hoodlum" looking guy confronted us at the car and said he wanted 10 dollars to buy some dinner. I tossed a 20 on the ground and as he went to get it, I got my wife in the car, got myself in the car and got the heck out of there. Yeah, maybe I could have mopped the sidewalk with him, maybe cleaned his clock real good and really impressed my wife. Then again, maybe he had a Saturday night special in his pocket and was ready to take me out of the equation and then have some fun with he and his crackhead buddies taking turns raping my wife.

    Not worth the risk. It's only money and pride. I can replace one and repair the other.
  6. I second that.
  7. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Why are so many people equating defending yourself to immature acts of trying to be a tough guy?

  8. This is a good point. Most people don't know how they would react in a situation where they had a gun pointed at them or a knife put to there throat. I do know how I would react, seeing as I have had both happen to me (the knife one in a pubic school nontheless).

    I have never been mugged. I have been physically threatened many a times but not over them wanting my money. I think the best bet is if they are armed, do what they want. Your life is worth more than what you are giving them. If they are unarmed, You tell them to F off and if they dont back off, you fight them off.
  9. Marlat


    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    Not that I am directing this at you, but there is a difference between "talking" about defending yourself and defending yourself. Over the internet you can only talk about defending yourself - maybe people have a healthy level of skepticism about what they read over the internet.
  10. Well, it depends...

    if it's a gun/weapon or a few people, i'd give my cash and dash.

    If it's some junky/other coming at me with a pocket knife, and i assess them as beatable i will fight (i know my limits)

    And if someone tried to mug me, i better not be carrying my toolbox, for i am a cook and i carry this knife with me to and from work every day (among others). And it's extremely sharp.

  11. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
  12. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Lots of good things have been said here. I don't believe you can just make a blanket statement of "I'd definitely fight back" because ANYONE can be gotten. If you find yourself as stated above, grabbed by the hair with a knife to your heart with no warning, then you're screwed. There are a very few people who could successfully fight out of such a situation and I would not be willing to try. However, (as I said in the other thread) if I have a visible threat approaching me and feel my life or my wife's life is in danger that threat will receive pieces of lead in his torso until the threat is stopped. That's my last option and I honestly hope that kind of thing never happens but I try to be prepared if it does. I realize that's not for everyone though and I don't think people should be carrying if they don't have or are not willing to get proper training. My father and my uncle (a senior investigator for the Harris County district attorney in Houston who's taught me a lot about defensive pistol use) have been teaching me about guns all my life so I'm pretty comfortable with them.

    You can learn all kinds of self-defense but the best self-defense is being aware of your surroundings and of what's going on around you. When I'm walking around somewhere at night I guaranty you I have my head on a swivel and I feel that it's prevented things from happening. By holding your head high and being aware you make yourself a little bit less of a target. Also, I would not be afraid to run away if that was a possibility and that would be my first option.

    When my wife and I were driving back from South Texas last month and we were going through San Antonio late at night I had to stop to go to the bathroom so I pulled up to a gas station. When I came back out I got in the car and something about a guy in the store caught my wife's attention...he didn't do anything unusual really but she trusted her instincts and said "Look at that guy." I looked over at him just as he was coming out of the store and I locked the doors. Sure enough this large man walked up to my window and I rolled it down about an inch (I know that wasn't the best thing to do). He said "What kind of cologne do you wear?" I was puzzled by that and kind of gave him a funny look and he said "I have all kinds of cologne at 60% off." I just said "I wear deodorant," rolled up the window and drove off. I should have driven off from the beginning but I didn't feel TOO much in danger as I had my hand on my 9mm from the moment he approached and he was never the wiser. Anyway, the end of the story is that a few weeks later someone posted that they had been mugged on another message board and it had started out the exact same way...a guy offering discount cologne. Then a couple of other people chimed in and said that the exact same thing had happened to them. So, I'm thinking that guy at the gas station might have been setting me up for a mugging but my caution in locking the doors, only rolling the window down an inch and not quickly leaving may have prevented that. Maybe he WAS just trying to sell me cologne but I'm glad that I'll never know for sure. It really made me think and resparked my whole awareness thing.

    Just thought I'd share...don't talk to strange people that approach you at gas stations and stay aware!!

    brad cook

    ps - You all knew I'd have to chime in on this one! :spit:
  13. Bard2dbone


    Aug 4, 2002
    Arlington TX
    Well I have a whole three episodes in my personal history. And based on those episodes I would say I am 66% likely to fight back. ;)

    One each in Dallas, San Diego, and Chicago. San Diego was when I was there for training in the Navy. I had a lot of aggression issues at the time and a wormy guy waving a knife at me looked like a great excuse to work off some anger issues. Yes I was reeeeeally immature at that phase of my life. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Now lets move on.

    The other one I fought back was a pair of skinheads in Deep Ellum. They thought being two of them to one of me would be effectively intimidating. Unfortunately for them they were wrong. I told them 'No.' and they didn't know what to do with me. They could have left and everything would have still been cool. Telling someone to give you his money probably isn't illegal until he decides he has to hand it over. That's when inappropriate discussion turns to robbery. One of them hit me. I beat the snoggings out of both of them and then called the police.

    The other time was different. In Chicago a guy said 'Hey man' I turned around and was looking into the barrel of a .45. He got all my money and I was okay with it. He ran off. I calmed down.(That took a while.) and then I called the police.

    If the robber is sufficiently dangerous to be a real threat, GO ALONG WITH HIM. If you think you can take him, give it a try.

    The part of me that is still kind of immature looks back on the thing with the skinheads in Dallas every once in a while and smirks. I should probably try to get over that.
  14. Some good posts here.

    I got mugged on me way back from the pub last year. Unfortunately I'd had a skinful so I was kind of startled- there were 3 of them (although I was not alone). They demanded a mobile phone so I said I didn't have one (stupid) and got hit in the head with some wood for my trouble. Then they ran off. Weird. This was 200 yards from my house by the way and it was 11:30.

    So yeah If i was fully sober I would probably leg it rather than take someone on. Don't think I would fight.
  15. BaroqueBass


    Jul 8, 2000
    Salem, OR
    I've only had one experience like that. I was walking home from work at about 12 or so, and whenever I walk home from work I always have my head in the clouds. I pass a parked car with its lights off and the engine running, and a big hispanic guy gets out. He walks over along with me, and for the life of me I never thought anything was up. I was just a bit puzzled. Next second later he tries to take me down, but even though he outweighed me by about 50 or so pounds, he did it very very sloppily, such that he was never really in control. We scuffle for a sec, and I get up. Then this big (they were both big, EEK!) black guy gets out and you can hear his switchblade go off. man o man, if he wasn't armed, I would have jumped in there in an instant. The adrenaline was flowing and I was pumped for a good smackdown. But it wasn't worth getting stabbed over, so I bolted.

    The thing I remember the most was how calm the black guy was. He looked at me like a surgeon would look at an operation. Very calculating, like he was very very very familiar to this sort of stuff.
  16. MMSterling

    MMSterling Guest

    Feb 19, 2004
    Leicester, England
    I've never experienced mugging, or anyone approaching me with a knife/gun. But I know that If someone approached me with a knife/gun, threatening for money, they could take it.

    I don't want to get into a fight, adrenaline or not, I'd rather lose the cash than lose so much more. Just my opinion on it all!

    Andy :)
  17. Well I´ve never been mugged, even though I live in a "bad part" of the city and frequently walk home at nighttime. But would I fight back, if someone threatened me with a knife?


    I have no need to carry large amounts of cash, I rarely have more than 20 euros on me. Deciding between losing 20 euros or even a remote chance of losing my life is a no-brainer. It´s only freaking money! A set of strings, few pints of beer (it´s really expensive here!), a couple of movie tickets. Principles are a fine thing to have but so is common sense. In fact I would happily part with 200 or even 2000 euros if my health was at stake. 20 000 would perhaps make me think a little, but "luckily" I will never even see that kind of money.

    And those who think junkies with knives are a piece of cake: perhaps you can beat them down, but what if they bite you? Or you get their blood on that little cut on your knuckles? I´ve got three letters for you: HIV. Would that $11 be worth it?

    I´d better stop before I get all political...
  18. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX

    Hey man...just because he's a mugger doesn't mean he's not a surgeon. Don't discriminate.

    brad cook
  19. Bard2dbone


    Aug 4, 2002
    Arlington TX
    It's true. Doctors don't make the kind of money they used to. Maybe he was a surgeon down on his luck. Hey, it could happen.
  20. thrash_jazz


    Jan 11, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Artist: JAF Basses, Circle K Strings
    I've never been mugged but I have been physically threatened in the street a few times - all of which I talked my way out of.

    Whether I fought back or not would depend on the circumstances. If it was one unarmed guy in broad daylight, I'd definitely try to fight back. I haven't been in formal martial arts for 13 years, but I do remember a few things.

    As mentioned, being aware of your surroundings is a huge factor in avoiding such incidents. Common sense is a good thing to have. Also, for some reason, people don't seem to mess with longhairs as much...

    Also, Ottawa is hardly a crimefest, especially compared to other places I've been. Most muggings here are swarmings by groups of kids at bus stations.

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