Finally committed to….

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Sturg, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Sturg


    Nov 29, 2013
    Finally bought a new amp and cab. Avatar sb 126 and a kustom kxb 500. Can't wait to hear them together. Thanks for everyone that provided help and information to help me decide.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
    alecduncan, LowEZ and topcat2069 like this.
  2. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    Let's hope the reality is more than the anticipation!! :)

    Enjoy your Christmas Present!! :D
  3. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Roots and fifths and a little extra.

    Jun 20, 2011
    West Bend, Wisconsin
    I'm really interested in the TB consensus on the Avatar 126. If configured a certain way, it strikes me as kind of poor man's Fearless F112. Can't wait to see if if lives up to that kind of expectation.
  4. Sturg


    Nov 29, 2013
    will post pics when it arrives. just need to get a speak on cable for it and i'll be good to go.
    seems like there are MANY choices for getting a cable….is there ONE brand/type that is best??
  5. Baird6869

    Baird6869 Supporting Member

    Not in my experience. Try to get something with Neutrik connectors and you will be fine.
  6. Eh. I'm sure it is a great cab, but the avatar cabs are very different from Greenboy's designs.
  7. tastybasslines

    tastybasslines Inactive

    May 9, 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    Me too. I hadn't seen that before. It looks really interesting. I like how they offer the options to customize it in much the same way as a Fearless. Fully pimped out, with a Kappalite 3012, and a couple color options, including a cover is about $500, which is still less than half the cost of the F112.

    Really curious to hear it or at least some reviews.
  8. The avatars do have a few tolex options that are appealing. That said their design choices in construction, mid driver, cross over, and porting place this cab in a different bracket than the F112.
  9. shoot-r


    May 26, 2007

    How much of an realistic improvement in sound would you say the Greenboy design would make over the Avatar design?
    .5%, 5%, more, less?
    Truthfully, would moving the horn and mid driver an inch or so closer on the Avatar TB153 as on a fEarful 15/6/Horn cabinet even be noticed in a "live" band setting?
  10. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Roots and fifths and a little extra.

    Jun 20, 2011
    West Bend, Wisconsin
    Well, a fear cab might still be using higher end components, for starters. Just because you've got the 3012LF doesn't mean you have everything else. I'd have to compare the parts list….mid, xover, etc. And the cab could be tuned differently as well, different size box, differently ported, etc.
  11. shoot-r


    May 26, 2007

    Yes sir, I understand this, but realistically what are we talking here in a live band setting?
    A very slight improvement, a moderate improvement, a HUGE.....UNBELIEVABLE difference?

    From my personal experience on things as this, it always turns out to be a slight, if at all, improvement for the extra dollars spent in a live band setting.

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
  12. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Roots and fifths and a little extra.

    Jun 20, 2011
    West Bend, Wisconsin
    There are two big draws to fear cabs, as far as I can tell. First is sound quality. In this area you might have a case. How much are you going to notice the difference between an A+ transparent sound to, say, a solid B sounding cab? In a live rock ensemble? Not sure.

    However, the other draw is efficiency. That is, you can turn up really loud and get much more out of a 12 cab than you could using any commercial cab on the market. That may be something you really notice a lot even in a live rock band setting. In fact, maybe it's especially in that setting.
  13. slade


    Apr 5, 2001
    the same speaker in a difference box is going to sound, you guessed it, different. Better or worse. Slightly or a lot. If someone here hasn't played them both side by side, and gigged them both a fair amount, their opinion is just an educated guess at best...

    MY educated guess would be "slight improvement"....
    drpepper likes this.
  14. shoot-r


    May 26, 2007


    I'd add, slight improvement or, barely perceived when played live on stage.
  15. Significantly. The mid drivers are very different. Avatar uses closed back mids, which do not have the performance of the open back drivers. Additionally the open back drivers' response pairs up with the woofer used, as opposed to just throwing a mid driver in there. Additionally the cross overs are very different. The cross over in the avatar cabs is an off the shelf component from Eminence. It has neither the power handling, or the design to mate the woofer and the mid driver as well as a purposed built unit. Why have that high powered woofer, if you cant use it because your cross over is crap? Will all that effect your sound quality? sure will. Will it matter to you? Dont know. There are people on this board who admit to have blown out their hearing 30 years ago. It may be less important to them than to others.

    Another big difference is the construction of the cabs. Avatar uses 3/4" panels, and no bracing. They use the thicker wood hoping to avoid some flexing of the panels, and dont use bracing as it adds to the cost. What you end up with is a cab that weighs more, isnt as strong, and costs a little less. If that small amount of savings is worth it to you over a stronger and lighter cab, then it doesnt matter.
  16. shoot-r


    May 26, 2007

    I'm in "no way" a tech or even claim to know what I'm trying to say, so have patience with me.

    It's my understanding there's not a lot of sound energy going to the mid driver and horn (most of the energy is going to the woofer/driver ?) so I'm not sure where the need for the highest power handling, most expensive mid unit and horn available is justified or even heard in a band setting.
    In a quiet, at home setting, I can see where the better mid components and horn can be heard, but in a live, loud band the "better" highs are covered up by drums, distorted guitars, ect..
    I can see where a open backed mid unit and a closed back mid unit may sound slightly different.
    I know the different box size and porting tunes the cabinet differently.
    But, to my ears, every Avatar cabinet's tuning I've played through sounds very, very good as I'm sure the Green Boy design does.

    I agree, Avatar could stand to improve on the crossovers that they use.
    Whenever there's a T.B. posted problem with a Avatar cabinet it's almost always crossover related.
    Truth is, (for better or worse), off the shelf Eminence crossovers are what are used in almost "all" commercially built bass cabinets.

    As to build and weight.
    I've heard many a Avatar cabinets live, (plus, I've been gigging two Avatar 210 Neo cabinets going onto 6 years now myself) never heard one rattle / flex.
    Truth is, my Avatars are standing up to the constant working band use far better than the Eden and Ampeg cabinets that I worked with in the past.
    My cabinets come in at 42 lbs. each, my guess that's probably 4 to 6 lbs. more than a fEarful 210?
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
    slade likes this.
  17. xk49w


    Apr 13, 2008
    The Avatar is a good value for what you are getting, a 3012LF and a 6" mid with a crossover. One could do worse. But to compare it to an F112, it has different design goals and obviously a different trade-off of design and implementation vs $$. At some point these things start to matter. The location of that point is opinion.
    CL400Peavey and slade like this.
  18. slade


    Apr 5, 2001
    I've heard two bass players locally sound fantastic live playing Avatar rigs. Very accomplished players with great tone.
    But they are good players. With great hands. And ears. And yeah, they sound great playing most anything.

    My guess is that you can make that Avatar/Kustom rig sound as good as a rig costing 3Xs as much if you use your ears and hands. I've heard some horrid sounds out of super expensive rigs. Owning a rig capable of sounding good isn't the same as actually sounding good playing it. I've seen some videos and heard some clips of guys playing specific cabs and gear that sound so bad that I feel embarrassed for the guy putting it out there. No amount of money can buy you good tone and a solid pocket (or land you a gig in a real band, playing good music, on legit stages).

    Play what you dig and congrats on the new rig!!
    Mystic Michael likes this.
  19. Power handling in the mid driver isnt the biggest concern, though it is something to consider. What does make a big difference is how the driver pairs with the woofer, how it sounds, and how it presents that sound/tone. Mid drivers will have different characteristics in tone, response range, and dispersion. The drivers that are widely considered "better" are assigned a higher price than those that may be considered "good enough". How important those items are, depends on who is purchasing the cab. Not all woofer+mid loaded cabs are going to sound or perform the same. The same way not all 410s do. There is a reason why Bergantino 410's fetch higher prices than Avatar 410's.

    Is that because the Berg is better or are they ripping people off?

    If you like the sound that is all that matters. One thing I will say, is that using full range woofers is easier to design around. You only have one driver to consider, and not multiple drivers and the interplay of the cross over.

    This is true, but you have to consider what trade offs go in to all cabs. In commercial cabs price is a big driving force. There are components that are chosen for their price and availability over their actual performance. Most people are not going to be pushing the cabs to their limits, so they may not find the limiting factors.

    I wouldnt say Avatar build quality is lacking. I think for the components they choose, they build a great product. They build better cabs than than what you see in most GC's. It would be foolish to deny they do not use cost saving measures though. Some of those build choices does increase the weight of the cab. It does not seem to be their design goal to build as light (and strong) as possible, just better than the majority of the competition.

    Comparing an Avatar 210 to an F210 isnt apples to apples. Very different performance goals, and that is reflected in their associated prices.
  20. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    The power handling/excursion difference in the 12" driver alone will make an enormous difference in volume capability.
    CL400Peavey likes this.