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Finally got some TI Jazz Flats for Christmas! Only one problem...

Discussion in 'Strings [BG]' started by Shanty, Dec 26, 2011.


  1. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    I love the tones, I really do. It's bright and punchy, with lots of growl that I can beat up on for hours. I've currently got a set on my MIM Fender fretless Jazz. As much as I love the bright tones for my fretless, I'm still excited for when they'll finally die and give me some good ol' thump.

    A few problems, though! My A string is buzzing. Like, really, really badly. But only when I play it open, and above the twelfth fret. In fact, they all buzz buzz really horrendously above the twelfth fret, and the low E starts buzzing about the seventh. With the A, if I play it open it buzzes really harshly, but if I put my finger down right next to the nut on the fretboard, call it A-eighth-step-sharp, and higher, it stops.

    These are issues I've never had with my other strings. The bass came originally with a set of unknown flats that I enjoyed immensely, but I thought I'd try these new guys. Is there anything I can do to eliminate the buzz? As near as I can tell, they're the same gauge strings as the older ones (.100-.043), but I don't have the tools to make the exact measurement.

    Help, please? I'll clarify any questions.
     
  2. BassClef 2010

    BassClef 2010

    Oct 31, 2009
    I don't know too much about these things, but I do know that the TIs are infamous for very low tension. If the stock strings were Fender flats, which IME they normally are, they were relatively medium or high tension, so you may need to get a set up to accomadate the much lower tension. Good luck!
     
  3. SLaPiNFuNK

    SLaPiNFuNK Commercial User

    Jul 28, 2006
    LA California
    The Brains: FretNation.com
    This is very common on P and J basses...

    You need to loosen the string on the post and push the windings on the post all the way down toward the face of the headstock and then tighten the string. The windings should be all the way down at the tuning post base so there is a good angle between the nut and the tuning post.

    No problems with your strings...
     
  4. funkyjudge

    funkyjudge Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2010
    Langhorne, PA, USA
    Also, with the buzz at and above the 12th fret, a bit less neck relief may be necessary/desirable. I had this exact situation (although probably not as severe as the initial poster) with my American Standard P-Bass. I ALWAYS make sure to wind the strings on the post all the way to the base of the tuning post at the headstock. This helps a lot; however, I was told by a very good bassist/bass repair person that string buzz at the higher frets can, and usually does, indicate too much neck relief, and string buzz at the first/second frets usually indicates too little neck relief.

    Perhaps a little "tweak" of the initial poster's truss rod to lessen the amount of relief in his bass' neck is in order .... it worked like a charm on my P-Bass!
     
  5. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    Thank you all! Looking at the tuning posts, they are up pretty high. I'll lower them and report my results. As for the tension, yes, they are much much more loose than the others.

    And then, of course, the ever-present struggle to remember which way to turn the truss rod...
     
  6. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    Well, maybe that's not going to work. The tuning posts appear to be sort of hourglass shaped, in that they wont push down to the bottom and always slide up to settle in the middle. Help?
     
  7. SLaPiNFuNK

    SLaPiNFuNK Commercial User

    Jul 28, 2006
    LA California
    The Brains: FretNation.com
    Not cut the string as short so the windings force them lower...

    :(

    I know the posts you are talking about... they are the more modern ones... You can get the last winding to wrap around the wider part of the base just barely, but you really need the full length of the string uncut wrapped around the post. (almost)
     
  8. funkyjudge

    funkyjudge Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2010
    Langhorne, PA, USA
    You should be able to get the strings to wrap almost all the way down the tuning posts, even with the post design that you described. As long as you leave enough string for at least 4 wraps on the posts, even the fact that the posts have that "semi-hourglass" shape shouldn't be an obstacle.

    Does the MIM Fretless Jazz have a "bi-flex" truss rod? If so, you lessen relief by turning clockwise, and add concave relief by going counter-clockwise (and A LITTLE TWEAKING GOES A LONG WAY WHEN YOU ARE ADJUSTING A TRUSS ROD ... most manufacturers recommend only going 1/4-turn at a time once you get past the slack at midpoint in the truss rod). When you do a truss rod adjustment, you'll need to let it "settle" for a short while, then check tuning and string intonation. A bridge saddle adjustment for string length will almost surely be needed after adjusting the truss rod.
     
  9. funkyjudge

    funkyjudge Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2010
    Langhorne, PA, USA
    Just the point that I was attempting to make regarding allowing for enough wraps around each tuning post.
     
  10. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    Blah! I've never restrung a headstock with four posts on one side, I'm used to two on each, so I didn't know how short to cut them. I compared them to the strings I took off and tried to make them as equal as possible. It gave me three windings on my low E and only two-and-a-halfish or two on the others. Am I screwed? These strings are expensive, I don't want to have wasted that much money for nothing. Would shimming the nut work, or would that just be awful? Crap.

    As for adjusting the trussrod, is that 'clockwise' and 'counterclockwise' when looking down the neck from the headstock?
     
  11. Jazzdogg

    Jazzdogg Less barking, more wagging!

    Jul 29, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    Because TI flats have lower tension than some other strings, my experience has been that a truss rod adjustment is usually necessary when changing to TIs from higher-tension strings. Loosening the truss rod (counter-clockwise) will create more relief; tightening will decrease relief. I usually make truss rod adjustments in quarter-turn increments.
     
  12. SLaPiNFuNK

    SLaPiNFuNK Commercial User

    Jul 28, 2006
    LA California
    The Brains: FretNation.com
    Do everything you can to get the string as low to the post as possible.

    Worst case scenario, they do make singles available...

    The E string should be as close to the post as possible as well, but there is a little more room for error on that string.

    And don't worry, I know some very experienced studio musicians that do this all the time on their P-Basses...
     
  13. funkyjudge

    funkyjudge Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2010
    Langhorne, PA, USA
    Does your MIM Jazz Bass have the trussrod adjustment nut at the body of the bass (with a notch or cutout in the pickguard to access it)? Also, do you have a T-handle trussrod adjustment tool with the ball end on the long hex allen wrench? If so, clockwise and counter-clockwise from the body looking up the neck toward the headstock.
     
  14. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Supporting Member

    You need to install the strings correctly and do a setup.

    Complaining because you don't understand how to wrap the strings is not productive. There are tons of posts on TB instructing you on how to do it. If you cut them too short, that's regrettable but it's operator error.

    You cut them too short. I normally cut them at least 4 finger widths past the tuner, so that I can get a number of wraps and the wrapping process allows the string to wrap down the tuner toward the bottom. BUT - you should install them the best you can, go ahead and do a setup on the bass, and see where you end up. I suspect that with lower string tension the neck has straightened out somewhat and needs more relief. Relaxing the truss rod adjustment may help.

    It pays to do research on this kind of thing before you cut the strings. If you don't even know which way to turn a truss rod nut to loosen it, then you will benefit from stopping right now, reading a number of references about how to do a setup, then returning to the process.
     
  15. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    I have done several maintenance type things on several different guitars and basses, however I was not familiar with the Fender-style body or headstock and the issues that that would create. I KNOW it was operator error, and I did not complain or try to place blame- I simply expressed that what I had done pissed me off. If you're going to give advice, you don't have to be passive aggressive and rude about it. Thank you for your input.

    As for the rest of you, thank you for the advice, I'll let you all know how it goes from here.
     
  16. One Drop

    One Drop

    Oct 10, 2004
    Swiss Alps
    I put a set of TIs on my '61 P, and there wasn't enough tension to pull the headstock forward enough to stop the D and G strings from lying on the first fret with my preferred amount of neck relief.

    The nut is cut properly for low action, and the neck is rock solid, but obviously accustomed to many years wearing higher tension strings. I had no problem with some nickel rounds it came with, but the TIs are really very low tension.

    Most modern basses shouldn't be a problem, but be aware of the possibility.

    I love these strings, but I suspect you might have a very long wait for them to go dead and bring the thump. To me they are a fabulously articulate and bright and middy string made for finger-style playing . They are way to flexible for me to use a pick with them.
     
  17. Shanty

    Shanty

    Dec 12, 2010
    I've managed to push the string down on the post by loosening it and winding in, ironically enough, the shorter end that I snipped off to begin with. While it looks slightly silly with the double-thickness of the extra string woven in, the buzz is gone! Woo! On to adjusting the truss rod, which I'm going to wait to do until Wednesday with my instructor/tech.

    Thank you all for your advice and help, I'll be sure not to repeat the same mistakes again.
     
  18. SLaPiNFuNK

    SLaPiNFuNK Commercial User

    Jul 28, 2006
    LA California
    The Brains: FretNation.com
    I only cut the strings if I need to.

    I only cut about 1.5" off the E string. I could have cut one more inch off the A and E strings.

    As is the A us not cut at all.

    pbass0760m.
     
  19. Aussie Mark

    Aussie Mark I come from a land down under

    Oct 26, 2002
    Sydney, Oz
    Endorsing Artist: Fender; O'Neill Amps; Cave Passive Pedals
    This. Absolutely. You guys talking about how the string is wound on the tuning peg are barking up the wrong tree.
     
  20. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Supporting Member

    The kind of headstock you have doesn't matter...but I understand that you're frustrated.

    Did you miss this part of my post? It seems to point the same direction as later suggestions...

    "BUT - you should install them the best you can, go ahead and do a setup on the bass, and see where you end up. I suspect that with lower string tension the neck has straightened out somewhat and needs more relief. Relaxing the truss rod adjustment may help."
     

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