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Finding that Gooey Glossy Tweeter Sound in Today's Cabs???

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jokerjkny, Jan 10, 2006.


  1. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    sorta thinking out loud,

    i miss the older tweeter sounds of the "silver grill'd" bergantino cabs of a few years ago.

    i distinctly remember the tweeter imparting a gooey glossy sheen to the overall Berg sound. not quite open and airy, but more like a rich layer of maple syrup. most notable in my memory was the almost ballpeen hammer like attack i'd get when using my thumb/slap technique.

    so, in being just curious, apart from finding an older Berg cab, which many of you guys are so blessed, what cabs do you guys think come close to or have that sound?
     
  2. I find that Accugroove, Acme and the earlier VL type EA cabs will definitely not do that sound. However, the current EpifaniUL line and the Schroeder cabs with the higher output tweeter option have that wonderful treble sheen that sounds great for slapping. I believe the EpiUL tweeter and crossover is very similar to the older Berg crossover and tweeter given Nick and Jim's history.
     
  3. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    thx KJ,

    but my epifani UL310 doesnt quite have that sound. again, its more airy and open.
     
  4. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    I think the Berg cabs evoke the sound of the old SWR cabs...I recall them having that gooey syrupy midrange.
     
  5. +1 If those old GIII's didn't weigh 100 pounds I'd still be using one.
     
  6. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    Sissy :D
     

  7. And it gets worse every year :D
     
  8. MikeBass

    MikeBass Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2003
    Ferndale MI.
    Artist: Xotic Basses/AccuGroove
    I always thought the Berg cabs were a nice cross between the Eden/SWR thingy and the newer "hi-fi" cabs like Epifani and such.
    But even the Berg 210 is heavy for a 210.
     
  9. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Dog poo! I have a 112HT. I had an swr jr. for many years.
    When I brought my first Epi's to gigs I had, a few drummers
    thanked me saying the swr highs used to fatigue them. The
    Berg tweeter (and crossover) is so much sweeter than
    either the swr or eden. You could take a drummers head
    off with a few swr horns and enough power. But the berg
    highs..... you could just bathe in the sweetness my friend.
     
  10. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    You would probably be able to find that sound in a cab with a Selenium tweeter...they have that glossy sizzle sound...I'm not sure if they sound gooey though :)
     
  11. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I think that Joker is going for that more "connected" feeling that IME only Bergantino tweeters deliver. To me, the titanium Selenium tweeters kind of stand out in front of the tone of the driver, and Epifani tweeters seem to float above the sound (high and airy, with a hint of woodiness). Admittedly, these words are not well suited to describing the difference in tweeters, but hey, they're all I got!

    But as to Jae's original question, which specific Bergantino cabs were you referring to? I think that Jim has only used a couple of different tweeters (the HT112 has a different one compared to the larger HT cabs), but he tailors the crossover to each cab. What you are hearing might be a crossover thing - or at least related to how the tweeter and crossover and driver(s) all interact.

    Tom.
     
  12. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    My dog poo comment may have been misplaced. I thought
    the berg's have the same tweeter in all the boxes. The
    bigger boxes could sound different than what I'm thinking.
    The highs from the 112ht are some of my favorite.
     
  13. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    So did Jim change the tweeter/crossover design recently?
     
  14. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, I am not sure about the driver itself, but the horn is obviously different (round on HT112, square on larger cabs).
     
  15. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, each crossover is designed for each particular cab, so whenever Jim comes out with a new (tweeter-equipped) cab, then a "new" crossover design is required, but to the best of my knowledge, I don't think he has switched tweeter drivers (or horn lenses, other than as noted, above).

    Tom.
     
  16. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Supporting Member

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    Back in the day when I didnt know that I didnt know what I was doing, :p , I was using a JBL bullet tweeter (2402 I think) as an alternative to the run of the mill Foster tweet that was so common in bass cabs.

    I noticed right away what sound I think your talking about. Glossy sheen with a nice smooth high end extention that wasent harsh, brittle, or clanky sounding. And when you snap and pop that bass, you just know your in slap heaven. It has a nice "slice" sound that extends from 3khz all the way to 20khz! (I think thats whats missing in most plastic tweets, -the range)

    Also the sound of an aluminum/metal tweeter vs. plastic is significant IME.

    The cross-over point being critical as Tom pointed out. The HT series bergs with the square flange mid horn are crossed-over much lower than the bullet tweet in the HT112, this for starters plus the different driver makes it sound different.

    That JBL was a monster tweet and total overkill for the job, but nothing came close. Nothing. I think the plastic bullets and small bi directional horns have that airy woody thing again Tom was talking about. (Epifani, GK, etc)

    The Pyle Pro and Selenium titanium metal bullet tweets might be your item homie. I know they're mine. Only reason I can see that more manufacturers don't use 'em is because they ain't cheap!

    I like guys like Don at LDS who will make YOUR cabinet with all your favorite gooey components, and Jim Bergantino for putting the cool stuff in to begin with.
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA

    me too,

    but when i did a few rehearsals at Euphoria studios, their 3x10 bergs have that sound. and ohhhh, what a glorious sound!
     
  18. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    cool stuff, TZ,

    hmm... is Schroeder the only guys doing the selenium thing?

    and speaking of SWR, in another thread, i remarked about trying my TF w/ an old SWR Goliath cab, and pinch my butt, if it didnt almost have that sheen.
     
  19. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    The tweeter in the HT310 is, as far as I can tell, the same tweeter in all of his larger cabs. Of course, the driver configuration and crossover are unique to that cab, and that's part of the magic. I love the speed and articulation of the HT310. In fact, I use two of them as my primary mid/hi cabs for our PA, and they sound great!

    To my ears, you can get that same gooey glossey tweeter sound (and a whole lot more!) from the IP310.

    Tom.
     
  20. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    LDS will build you a cab with Seleniums. (and their crossovers are designed by Ralf Patterson of Patterson Audio, he also uses Seleniums.)