Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

First song.. Got any advice?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by metalguy2, Sep 29, 2005.


  1. metalguy2

    metalguy2

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
    Hi guys.. This is my first song that I actually finished by myself. Want some outside advice before I bring it to the band. Since it is song writing I took a wild guess that it should go in general instruction.

    The end of the song is a coda to the chorus (measure 13) that is in 3/4. Hard to miss with the accents! but that is where the song starts to repeat itself.

    But any comments would be helpful.
    CLICKME!!
     
  2. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    Using software with midi playback is a excellent way to compose songs. As far as your composition, I didn't listen to the whole thing, it was too long - sorry. But I didn't listen to enough to get a grasp of what you are trying to acheive. Things that noticed or "heard" was Contrast between the the HH and the baseline, and there was Repetition and Variation between sections. So it's got all the basic elements as far as Form. One suggestion that I have is to incoporate dissonant tones into varies sections. Dissonant tones will add lots more tension into the composition, then resolve that tension using V-I or V-I progression at the end of the section.

    Pretty good I thought. I would also like to hear the finished product if at some stage too :)

    [edit]

    Another idea to use in your composition, is Modulation. You could Modulate several times if you wanted to. a very popular modulation pattern is from I-V, where V becomes the new tonic.
     
  3. pretty damn good groove to it, got me tapping my foot a bit. let some of those notes ring out a bit longer, otherwise it kinda sounds jammed together in some points.
     
  4. metalguy2

    metalguy2

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston

    Are you talking about using things like dominant chords for the 5th. Basically? Or are you talking about bringing out the dissonant tones in a chord instead of just playing the I-V power chord.
     
  5. metalguy2

    metalguy2

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
    O yea.. It is so long because I put a coda at the end that makes it start at the 13th measure again. You weren't missing anything :)
     
  6. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    What I means is using diminished and Augmented chords patterns to create tension, and at the end of the section use a two chord progression from a dominant chord to the Tonic or Home Chord (eg G7 - Cmaj7) The V-I chord progression re-inforces the key that your using.
     
  7. metalguy2

    metalguy2

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
  8. bonscottvocals

    bonscottvocals

    Feb 10, 2005
    Upstate NY
    Sorry, it felt sterile, like the sound track to a B-rated action flick. If you're playing that bassline, it's very precise, but it's got no human groove. I'll give you that it's exact, perfect, and all that -- it just doesn't make me feel anything. It gives the impression that it's something someone drew up in a drum machine that includes bass and played it.
     
  9. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    I think song writing is an evolving process. I've heard of song writers who spend months refining ideas.
     
  10. metalguy2

    metalguy2

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
    ?
    It is sheet music.. based on a song idea... It would be different if it were something I actually recorded... But this is something that hasn't even gotten to stages of bringing to the band. I was asking for judgement of theory. Not feeling... It is ****ing midi for christ sake.

    That is definately not the kind of opinion I was looking for.
     
  11. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Which is a risk you take posting unfinished stuff on a place like Talkbass. Don't worry about it...everyone has to endure criticism, even the biggest of rock stars. Just stay true to yourself. I haven't heard it yet but if you think you're onto something, then you are.
     
  12. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    Check out www.youngcomposers.com

    These people use midi alot for composing. Plus all of them understand the downside of midi, and understand it's just part of the song writing process.

    I guess it's difficult to analyse compositions, if you don't how to do it. The next best option is the post a statement on how it makes you feel, which is not what you asked for. That's why you posted in General Instruction. I think you did the right thing, and bonscottvocals just doesn't know how to analyse compositions. I'm still learning myself though, and I'm always willing to share my knowledge.

    If you've got any more, post'm up dude.
     
  13. bonscottvocals

    bonscottvocals

    Feb 10, 2005
    Upstate NY
    1. I've written more songs than you can imagine. Don't run around making assumptions about the people on here. We have authors, song writers, professional musicians, and young people starting out.

    2. The original post says, "Hi guys.. This is my first song that I actually finished by myself. Want some outside advice before I bring it to the band. Since it is song writing I took a wild guess that it should go in general instruction." and it ends with "But any comments would be helpful." I guess he only meant comments that he liked.

    3. Regardless of the fact that this is a midi track, it's still sterile and boring. It's repetitious nature lead to comments like "As far as your composition, I didn't listen to the whole thing, it was too long - sorry". I did listen to the whole thing, there you compositional genius. It had no feel.

    4. I may come from the school of plugging into a 4 track and throwing down a basic composition on guitar, keyboard, bass/drums, and vocals; but regardless of the source of a song, it has to be inspired. This doesn't say happy, sad, angry, or any other emotion for that matter. The author said that he's going to introduce it to his band. They may know him and with a little explanation (e.g. "I was going for techno-funk"), they might get a feel for what it could feed. [edited to add] But that's because they know the writer, they can read his face and see how he's grooving to the song. When you present a song over the Internet, all of that is lost, and you have to let the song stand alone, in whatever form it holds. [end edit]

    To the original poster, I will say: just because you don't like what a person posts does not mean that you shouldn't listen to criticism. The mark of a good song writer is the ability to listen to an audience both actively and passively, then to make modifications to the song (if necessary). If you can't be open to input in the beginning, you're in for a rude awakening in the future.

    Good luck in your endeavors - sincerely.
     
  14. No offense Bonscott, but your comment did seem a little off. It sounded like you were saying that it isn't performed with feeling. He just scored it and produced a MIDI file, and you can't expect stellar performance from a simple score to MIDI conversion. You said, "It gives the impression that it's something someone drew up in a drum machine that includes bass and played it." That's exactlly what he did, so I don't see how it's helpful to tell him that. He already knows how he produced it. Maybe you didn't realize how it was made? To me (and Metalguy) it sounded more like you were criticising the quality of the MIDI file than the composition itelf. I think what you were really trying to address was the quality of the composition, right? I do agree that it could be more engaging, but I also think it's not a bad start. I'd like to hear parts for the other instruments to get a more complete picture of what you're going for, Metalguy. I find that it really helps me compose when I switch from instrument to instrument. I'll write a few measures of drums or bass or strings or whatever I've got, then when I finish the idea I was getting out I'll decide what the other instruments should be doing there.
     
  15. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    You're full it.

    Mainly because you Criticize with out giving a reason why. You have to understand that the three basic concepts of musical form is Repetition, Variation, and Constrast.

    I don't believe you've written a single note in your life.

    Also, luck has nothing to do composing music. It's quite straight forward really.

    Explain yourself!
     
  16. bonscottvocals

    bonscottvocals

    Feb 10, 2005
    Upstate NY
    lemur821, you're right about the fact that I should have been more specific about what I meant by sterile. It does sound like I was saying something about the recording and not the feel of the composition itself. Still, I've heard plenty of techno played through midi that has groove and feel. I came up in the 80's, and there was plenty of it around. Therefore I will elaborate to say, "Although it was created in midi, I have heard midi tracks that convey more feel, and this particular midi track left me cold."

    Let's take, for example, some of the sound track for the "Terminator films". While there are sequences purposely created to sound robotic, they express the intensity of the scene at the same time. This is done through dynamics, tension and release, and simple changes to prevent the repetition from sounding repetitive.

    So, to metalguy, I apologize for not elaborating in the beginning. Again, I listend to the composition as a whole and out of context from what you may have been trying to accomplish. I also sincerely apologize, since I thought that you were going for a techno-punk thing, and this was actually going to be 'the song' and you would be looking for your band to throw vocals and guitar over it. Remember, we all have a different perspective and mine was that you were going for a sci-fi sound on purpose. Sorry. Believe it or not, if this is simply the beginning of the song, I believe that the inputs of your bandmates will be enough to evolve the song into something more involved. This is a strong beginning.

    Kiwi Kid, you're right, I hadn't elaborated on what could be improved. I also extend an apology to you as well. I do disagree, though. Luck has a lot to do with the inspiration of songs as well as their evolution. If the Bee Gees hadn't been composing on a train, "Jive Talkin" would have never had the driving beat it got. If Roger Waters hadn't taken note of a particular "Keep off the grass" sign, "Brain Damage" would not have been born. And if Steven Tyler hadn't been snorting cocaine as a teen, "Dream On" wouldn't have been penned.
     
  17. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    TB is a learning environment. I've had my butt kicked a couple times, but people not to hold grudges. That's the beauty of TB.
     
  18. You remember that video game doom? (the first one) Yeah, it remind me of the first levels music, however the lead guitar bit, the bass in that song is just open E's synced to the kick.

    But hey, I've been composing in midi lately myself, mainly because I have no way to record, so it gets my musical ideas ou of my head fairly effectively.

    And kiwi, mate no offense whatsoever, but sometimes it's to easy to turn music into a science, something with rules and formulas. Now in my opinion, music is something natural, flowing - like any artform, and luck, I've found, often has a lot to do with, not only compositions, but all music in general. I know I've screwed up tons of times and thought "hey that's cool, I'll use that!" Again, not a personal attack, it's just I find the more I think of music as a science, as opposed to an artform, the more the music suffers.

    -Bernard.