Florida schools promote teenage pregnancy? :confused:

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by JMX, Jan 31, 2003.

  1. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
  2. Condoms aren't allowed in schools? Is that a Florida law? Because one of my health teachers brought some in and has us open and examine them (so to speak) one day.

    I think the stuff about the mood lighting and the music is a bit sketchy, but I guess he was trying to make sex ed seem less sterile, awkward, and boring.

    Then again, Florida is a pretty messed up state.
  3. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Geez. That's terrible.

    They were in 9th grade - how old does that make them?

    When I was at school, we were shown videos with someone putting a condom on a fallic shaped object :) It's part of the curriculum.
  4. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Children of the age of ninth grade should not be taught how to use condoms and what the proper mood is for using them. Also having kids act as sex therapists is totally unappropriate. While I know kids these age do sometimes have sex, they are way too young. I was 13 when I entered ninth grade! I would want to send my kids to learn to read and write and do math. I can teach them what they need to know about sex. If he wanted to teach safe sex why not include abstinence? There is no such thing as truly "safe" sex. There is always a risk of something happening no matter what precautions you take.

    And personally I don't care what Germany does or doesn't do as far as this matter goes. It has no bearing on what happens here.
  5. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Well I've never had that happen with me in any of my classes before. Haven't had sex ed since 8th grade and when that happened it was just a class teaching abstinence and had no condoms or anything like that.

    Florida schools are messed up and all, but this seems like a localized incident.
  6. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    I think 13 is definitely not too young to be teaching these things... I think if you're old enough to be able to masturbate, you're old enough to be able to have sex, and you're old enough to be taught how to put a condom on.
  7. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida

    holy moley, moley. I guess youre right in certain respects. :p

    And in reply to BigWill,

    C'mon. Low blow to Florida. Sure it sucks sometimes or is weird, but no more than any other state in the US or other place. If you think your state is so much better, think again. You just know what happens by what your newspapers and state government want to tell you. I bet plenty of sicker things have happened where you live. :rolleyes:

    To BassSaxMan,

    Having the abstinence approach is totally unacceptable as far as teaching methods go. You can't just hide things or teach that they are evil and extremely dangerous. Teaching condom use and other contraceptive product use is the way to go because teenagers will have sex whether you like it or not, with or without sex education. :rolleyes:
  8. If a 9th grader can understand the why's and wherefore's of condom use then the same 9th grader can understand the concept of abstinence.

    Whether you like it or not it is simply a fact that the only 100%, surefire way to avoid pregnancy AND STD's is abstinence. End of argument.

    But I would bet you dollars to donuts that the school systems teaching the use of condoms AREN'T teaching abstinence.
  9. P. Aaron

    P. Aaron Supporting Member

    Abstinence works every time it's tried.

    When in doubt: Ask the Principal!
  10. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida

    Hand over those bucks, Hammy, cause I know I got the bet. :D I had a sex ed program called Be The One back in 8th grade and no condom use was taught but sure as hell abstinence was. I've never had friends (all over South Florida) that have told me about condom use sex ed classes they've taken either. Seems very rare for those to occur, but abstinence is being pushed and pushed on so much on the teenagers in my area many are just saying the proverbial 'cram it up you know where' and doing what they were going to do anyways. And an overwhelming majority are doing so. Don't tell me otherwise, because over here that's how it is.
  11. ...but it's not tried very often, and you're severely deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

    Yeah, sure, as a religious conservative I'd love to see everyone practice abstinence. But I know it isn't gonna happen. I see teaching kids how to use a condom as analogous to teaching self-defense techniques: ideally, you shouldn't be walking down that street at 3 AM in the first place, but as long as you're there, you might as well know how to protect yourself.

    BassSaxMan, you are pathetically deluded if you think 13 is too young to teach kids about safe sex, because they were doing it at 11 in my town. My hometown church congregation has had two successive bishops whose daughters got knocked up before 18--and they were getting a very vigorous abstinence-promotion message at home. I would much rather have the schools teach the kids how to use condoms than see 35-year-old grandparents.

    I would like to see a sex education program that has as a message, "Look, we really don't want you to have intercourse. If you can't satisfy yourself through manual stimulation or oral sex, at least use a friggin' condom. You have been warned; don't expect a shoulder to cry on if you get knocked up because you had consensual unprotected sex."
  12. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Here we go again. I promised myself I wouldn't even check this but I must make a brief comment. I am not pathetically deluded whatsoever. Isn't this a breach of rules to infer that about me Peter? What happened to being respectful...

    My point was they don't even TRY to teach abstinence when it should be taught as an alternative. Why teach 13 year olds how to have "safe sex" when that is somewhat of an oxymoron? It's just encouraging that behaviour whether you believe it or not. At 13 kids should not be dealing with this sorta stuff, they are simply too young physically and emotionally. Keep in mind I am talking about "safe sex" not sex, when referring to the type of education here. We were taught sex ed in ninth grade but it was strictly on how the reproductive organs worked. Not on how we can run off and do it "safely."

    When I was referring to how I can teach my own children, I was referring to what should be acceptable and what isn't. Public school teachers should just not be given that job. Teaching the biology of the deal is teaching science, not morality which is what promoting "safe sex" is doing in effect.

    Argh why do I come back to check this stuff when I said I promised myself I wouldn't?
  13. BSM,

    You have nice ideals, but they're not in touch with reality.

    Kids are not physically unready for sex at 13--if they were, then by definition they wouldn't be having it! I agree that they're emotionally unready, but many people never are, so we can take that point off the table.

    Your final point, which is little more than a restatement of the common abstinence-advocate argument that public school teachers' instructing their students in condom usage is an implicit endorsement of them having sex. Perhaps it is, but that's irrelevant. Ask any teenager (you were one fairly recently, remember) about the level of esteem in which they hold their public school teachers and the answer in most cases will be somewhere between "low" and "none."

    I can imagine that abstinence-program advocates have this dark fantasy wherein a 14-year-old boy says to a 12-year-old girl at a party, "My health teacher says we can do this, so let's do it!" (After they've smoked a giant doobie, of course.)

    It seems that the abstinence advocates here want the schools to advocate a pipe-dream ideology that is scorned by its intended audience. As a taxpayer, I would prefer that my dollar go toward ameliorating the public health effects of teen sex rather than futilely trying to reverse what is ultimately, IMO, bad parenting.
  14. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    I really don't think teaching abstinence works. Telling kids not to do things doesn't work all that effectively.

    We teach our kids that they shouldn't swear. And what do they do? Swear like rappers on heat. Some parents may not know, or admit it - but kids swear - not least because it's 'naughty'. IME, parents can be kinda naive in terms of knowing what words kids know & don't know. I knew the F work at the age of 6 or so. Maybe younger. And it's because we have built up this issue around swearing that kids do it! If we didn't care either way, would it be such an attraction?

    Same with smoking, and drugs. Does telling kids not to do it work? It would seem not. Because we tell 'em not to, and they do it.

    And with sex. We tell 'em not to, and what they do? Have kids in their teens. Obviously this isn't true of all teens - some will obey their instructions not to have sex, some will want to wait anyway. But many won't.

    Just telling them not to doesn't work. It depends on the kid, of course - some will understand the ramifications, some won't - but just instructing kids not to have sex until they're 18 doesn't really work, in general. What it does mean is - they will have sex, but they will feel guilty, and they'll hide it. Brilliant. Not only are they doing what we don't want them to, but they're feeling guilty for having done the most natural act, and hiding it from us.

    I think the fact that sex - even with adults - when outside of a relationship - is considered dirty, wrong - has something to do with it. There's a whole opinion that sex is wrong outside of a relationship - or wrong outside of marriage, for some. Personally, I don't agree with this at all. But what it does mean is that we try to force our kids from not having sex unti they're in a stable relationship. And I don't think that is really healthy. IMHO.
  15. savagelucy


    Apr 27, 2002
    In grade 9, my class was taught abstinence as the best method of birth control. But knowing kids would have sex anyways, they showed us how to use a condom and detailed other methods of birth contol (diaphram, the pill, etc.). Condoms are also available at the nurses office, for no charge, to the students.

    I think it is a good set up.
  16. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Well really if you want to get into it this whole thing goes much deeper than just public sex ed.

    And no 13 year olds are NOT physically ready to be having sex. Sure they CAN be doing it but how dangerous is it for a 13 year old girl (or younger) to be pregnant? You think a child is physically ready to carry another child? It CAN be done but it's not safe. It is nothing like a fully mature woman carrying a baby. So no they are not physically ready. I was not talking about whether or not its possible.

    So you honestly think that because many kids won't practice abstinence that all teaching about it should be thrown out the window? Why can't it at the very least be taught concurrently with everything else? As far as students having respect for their teachers, I did for most of mine. Although I definitely related to them easier than people my own age at the time.

    I totally understand your point about what fixing what is ultimately bad parenting, and I am not thinking the schools can only teach abstinence, but why include it as well. I have no problem whatsoever with the following being taught to maybe slightly older children in schools:

    "If one chooses to have sex, condoms can be used to reduce the risk of contracting an STD or causing a pregnancy, however to avoid them altogether abstinence is the only way."

    Is that too much to ask? I would be totally fine with that being taught in the classroom. I understand not everyone wants to wait, and it is there choice I just think abstinence should be presented as an alternative to everything else that goes on. I think that is entirely reasonable. Being taught the right "mood" and how to put on condoms is something else IMO. Seriously if someone needs to be taught how to actually use a condom they are too stupid to be choosing whether or not they should having sex.

    Also, if being taught how to use condoms and how to have sex doesn't promote a greater number of kids having sex, what if someone wanted to teach kids how to use guns "safely" at 13? Would that promote gun violence? Would people think that is ok? I mean they are both potentially life threatening actions...what do people think about that?
  17. P. Aaron

    P. Aaron Supporting Member

    Abstinence does work. Everytime it's tried. I can't comment on anyone else. But these rules are merely what I am going to relay to my kids. The same goes for weed and booze.

    To somewhat comment on Moley's last paragraph:

    I may not be entirely successful, but coming from a family where divorce happened when I was very young, I owe my kids more than a weekend visit, or admonition after the fact. I saw the poor examples my parents were in relationships after thier divorce. I got the impression from them that thier relationships were merely products; Disposable if inconvenient. I am determined to do the BEST I can for my kids. I took on the responsibility.
  18. I don't know why people are saying that schools either teach abstinence or safe sex, but not both. I remeber being taught both. Maybe it is different for other people?
  19. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    I know the statistics about gun laws etc etc. but that wasn't my point. I really don't want a gun thread to start up here...I was just curious what people thought...
  20. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    I think it depends on what the curriculum is which is a local thing really. At my school abstinence was never mentioned...but neither was how to use a condom. I had that like 8 or 9 years ago though. I graduated in 98 and had sex ed in grade 9. It was nothing like what we read about today however.