foam muting: over or under the strings?

Agreed. In a studio session the engineer had the drummer sit on the floor and hold the foam against the top of the bass strings to get the perfect muted sound. Comparing various takes of top and bottom foam, top foam did sound better.

Can anyone explain why that is?

 

The magic of coincident and inconsistent logically flawed conclusions?

That doesn't prove anything, first of all better is subjective, and secondly, even if it wasn't you couldn't conclude anything out of it since this was just the case with 1 bass, hardly a statistically valid number for a conclusive test result, but even if it was I doubt anything was done to ensure that the pressure on the strings was the exact same from the foam placed under the strings as the foam placed on top held by that drummer, not to speak about making sure to test if the same result was obtained or not using different sizes and types of foam.

It's about as valid a conclusion as if concluding that bass sounds better when it rains outside from the fact that it rained outside while the best take, according to the personal preferences of the engineer, was recorded, and that the sun shone while the worst take, according to the personal preferences of the engineer, was recorded.

 

I’ve experimented extensively with it over the years and I’m a definite top mute believer.

I think unless you’ve got the thickness of your foam wedge cut exactly right it tends to overly deaden when wedged under the strings. And there’s a significant difference between muting and deadening a note.

FWIW, most traditional electric bass string mutes were glued to the bridge cover on classic basses that had them. And I’m thinking if someone as notoriously thrifty as Leo Fender decided to take the extra manufacturing step of putting it there - as opposed to just including a wedge of foam or rubber in the case - there had to be an audible difference for him to have done so.

Note: I also prefer to use a medium soft felt pad as opposed to foam for a mute on most basses I’ve owned. Soft glove leather glued to foam or felt also works well on some basses. YMMV.

 

Utterly absurd!



Just because you can't conclude anything in general terms from the result of a specific experiment doesn't mean that you can't know the specific result of that specific experiment, just that you can't use it to conclude anything in general terms from it, outside of the specific result of that specific experiment.

If adding a drop of red dye to a glass of water makes the water turn red, then you can conclude that the water turned red from you doing that, even if you can't conclude that adding a drop of whatever random liquid will make it turn red too, doesn't mean that your logically flawed conclusion somehow magically turned you blind preventing you from seeing the water turn red.

If I once ate a piece of chocolate cake and got a stomach ache a valid conclusion is not that you should stay away from chocolate cake because it makes your stomach ache, that is simply not how logic, or even just common sense, works, however that doesn't mean that I didn't eat that piece of cake or that I didn't get a stomach ache, or even that there isn't still a possibility that it might perhaps even very well had been that specific piece of cake that gave me that stomach ache.

I am not doubting that he heard what he heard, and I am not even saying that his conclusion necessarily is wrong, top mounted foam might very well be the best options for muting strings, what I am saying however is that, while it very well might be the actual result of that specific experiment, with that specific bass and that specific piece of foam, and under those specific conditions (recording technique and gear, type and size of foam, amount of pressure applied to the foam piece e.t.c), he can't make a valid general conclusion from the specific example he mentions as it proves absolutely nothing in more general terms.

 

the foam goes under the strings
,..i refuse to experiment, and am belligerently opinionated on this matter

 

I've been using glued-in dense foam under the ashtray cover, over the strings, on my Jazz bass (plus Rotosound Steve Harris signature flatwounds) for at least a decade and I LOVE IT. I can plug in direct and it sounds exactly like I want to sound. I found it harder to get consistent muting across all 4 strings, and for it to stay in place, when placing a chunk of foam under the strings. Granted, I'm not looking for a wide variety of sounds, so it's not a problem for me for the mute to be always screwed on. YMMV.

 

I use foam over and under my bass strings. If it goes under, I trim the thickness down so as not to put too much pressure under the strings. I have two basses with the foam on top of the strings, a Hofner Club and an Orangewood short scale acoustic/electric. I trim the foam both horizontally and vertically on those and cut slots for each individual string. I use the foam insulation strips that you can buy at the hardware stores for putting around a window AC.

 

That is all fine, but the way he concluded his post with:

To me suggests that he assumes his experience points at a more general tendency, which is why I answered as I did in my initial reply to it.

 

im so sad,...i had
the perfect peice of foam
whered it go?
what happend to my tone?

 

Any piece of soft matter placed against the strings near the bridge get the desired tone. It's a matter of adjusting the pressure. Any position is good to me.

 

Go over. More consistent and easily fixed and placed.

Carol kaye goes overtop.
Bob Babbit goes underneath.

Different ways but if you're going to keep it easy and consistent. Over top in my own experimentation has been easier and i can adjust and sound better.

Your first line of in my in over to sound better. Go with your ears.

 

I'm surprised nobody has experimented with archery string silencers.

 

I've experimented with many muting techniques. Many types of foam and fabric. Over. Under. Even used tissue paper woven over and under at the same time. All different sounds. All different ways of affecting overtones and sustain. Depends what sound you are after. I no longer use mutes.

 

I have a short-scale custom fretless with a felt mute that the strings pass thru. It really does get a nice dull thump.

 

Carol Kaye suggests under-string mutes for finger plucking, and over-string mutes for picking with a plec. However, I have used both ways with fingers and a pick, and I don't find any difference between them.

On the bass I learned on, the mutes were built-in Mustang style foam mutes, and I used them always. 1977 Music Man Stingray. So I grew up muting, and quite heavily. I still do, when a bass has mutes. But I have so many basses, and so few of them have mutes, that I just play around the lack of mutes on most of my basses.

On my former #1, a P Bass made of various Fender parts, I used to use compressed foam ear plugs sliced down to the best sounding length, wedged in between my saddles and the intonation adjustment screws on a classic style Fender bridge. "Best sounding length" was a matter of trial and error. Some strings needed a whole ear plug, smashed down, wedged in, then allowed to expand. Others needed just about a 1/8 inch cross section of an ear plug.

Since replacing that P Bass with American Vintage '58 P and an AV '64 J, I have been using the stock mutes, stuck to the bottom of the bridge covers. This allows more control over the placement, but less control over the muting intensity...and intonation tends to be harder to nail down.

On my '75 Musicmaster Bass, I gaff taped felt furniture pads on top of the strings years ago. Who knows if they are even touching the strings any more.

I wish my G&Ls had mutes. Seems Leo Fender abandoned his long-held belief that basses should have mutes, right when he started G&L.

 

I love the ease of using a Nordy Mute to quickly go between foam mute and no mute, so over the strings?