For a Piezo : Sansamp BDI with tc Bodyrez or ZOOM AC2

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Mister Cbass, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    Hello,

    I've read you a lot since few weeks, about the gear used to "embellish" a piezo sound.

    With your help, I've discovered that the first point is the input impedance and the importance of a good DI or Preamp dedicate to piezo pickup.

    Last time, I've use a zoom b1on with my double bass, the result was ok but, just ok...

    So I've made some test with my sansamp BDI, with the suggested setting " full range piezo".

    The result was really better, I'm very happy. I've boosted more the bass than proposed in the manual, and decrease the presence.

    I know that other doublebass players here use the sansamp bdi.
    Maybe could they share their personnal settings ?


    Inconvenience with the sansamp, no medium knob ... but maybe it's not absolutly needed.

    I've thought try to add him a TC bodyrez ( around 90 € in europe).

    Or maybe get a zoom ac2 instead and use it alone. looks good, with a lot of option.
    tuner, anti feedback, piezo or magnetic pickup selector, a specific mode for upright bass ( wich seems restore the acoustic sound of the intrument), DI, inpu impedance 10 MΩ....etc ...

    I've read here that some of you use the ac2 or ac3 and are happy with it.
    Maybe could they give me their oprinion ( + or - ) about this gear.

    Thanks in advance.


    Sebastian
     
  2. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Which version of the unit do you use, and also what pickup are you using? I used a Para Driver for several years and was able to get very usable sounds out of it, but it would be set completely differently depending on the pickup and the playing style.
     
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  3. Jay Corwin

    Jay Corwin Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Sanborn, NY
    It sounds like the OP has the Version 1 of the BDDI, prior to the addition of a mid adjustment being added. I used this for a little while a few years ago before eventually landing on the ParaDriver. It was ok for piezos, but the newer versions with a mid band are much better.

    For the OP - I would recommend trying the full tube emulation setting with the BDDI just to see what you get. I've run that at 100% on both the old BDDI and the ParaDriver which I currently use. It's a matter of taste, but give it a try. To my ears it softens a lot of the harshness of the piezo pickup. However it is not what most would consider a "natural" kind of upright tone.

    I run the TC Bodyrez after my Sansamp. It's always on. I'm a big fan - you can read my extensive reviews here. Where the Bodyrez might help you is in the mid band. I believe it filters somewhere in that 700hz range - very helpful with piezos. If you do decide to try one, I would offer this bit of advice - get your tone as close to where you want it with the BDDI first before you introduce another effect. While it's a very cool pedal, it's kind of one-trick pony, and isn't going to overcome any deficiencies you might have in your preamp section.

    My settings on the ParaDriver change at every gig, dependent on the room and my ears.
     
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  4. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    Hello,
    I own the bassdriver progamable ( without mediums controls) .
    I use a KK bass max ( piezo)
     
    Chris Fitzgerald likes this.
  5. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    Thank's, I will try the full tube emulation.
    For the moment, I've got a pleasant sound like this :
    Bass around 16 o', trebble around 9 o clock, presence and blend at 12 o clock, and 0 % of drive.
     
  6. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Listening to all of you talk about the Sans Amp BDDI, is very interesting to me. While I would probably never go this route, because I'm a one pre amp guy. Having to use extra pedals along with the BDDI
    makes it to complicated for my needs. That said, everyone seems to love this pedal, so it's obviously a very good preamp.
     
  7. Jay Corwin

    Jay Corwin Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Sanborn, NY
    The setup I use is still single preamp. I agree with you completely in that respect.

    I use a Bodyrez and HPF after my preamp, so no additional tone shaping or gain staging really.
     
  8. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I find it interesting that you guys have been happy using the BDDI with Piezo pickups. The input impedance on those is only 940K. The Paradriver is 4.7megohm. Much better for pickups that want to see from 4 to 10 megohm inputs. With my FullCircle, the 4.7 in the Paradriver sounds better than my 10megohm, depending on the amp I'm using. Most of the time I bypass the eq section. Again, depending on the amp. Sometimes I use the Fdeck HPF 1 buffer pre. (great piece of gear at a really good price) Sometimes I'll even use that with my 60 P bass in a studio to warm it up just a bit.
     
  9. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    You' re right, but the sounds is actually better with it, than plug direct in the bass combo .

    Maybe the Behringer adi could be a good challenger ( same impedance as the orginal) to make some test for a budget.
    https://www.thomann.de/fr/behringer...eamp.htm?sid=ffcd712281dace67959c9a9549e6da1b

    Maybe it's sound good, but it looks very cheap.

    Sansamp paredriver looks cool but for the same price I prefer get a headway or a radial pz deluxe . Too expensive for my need and level.
    150 Euros/dollars max.

    No sure that it was usefull to create a another thread, but the Yamaha ag stomp seems be a good option too.
    Not too expensive " used".
    With a mic modeller option.
    Yamaha AG Stomp
     
  10. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I could be wrong, but the Sansamp ParaDi would be a good amount less money than the Headway. ($300. versus $200.) Also, using any of these options would probably sound better than just going straight into the amp. The question is.... How much better do you want it to sound. I've had a student who could fit his upright bass into a Volkswagen. I think we can agree it would be a better fit in a larger car or SUV. If all you need is cheap and (very) good, just get an Fdeck HPF. About $55. Just my humble opinion. jmho
     
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  11. Jay Corwin

    Jay Corwin Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Sanborn, NY
    Not sure on pricing in France, but in the states the ParaDriver runs about $210, the Headway $350, and the Radial $250. Again these are ballpark numbers. So the Paradriver is the least expensive over here.

    If you like what a BDDI does but need a more tone shaping and better impedance loading, then the ParaDriver is a no brainer. The mid band is selectable, and can be boosted or cut to taste. It also has a hotter output than the others mentioned and drives a power amp quite nicely. I'm a little biased though.

    The Headway I've never used, but I owned a Radial PZ Pre for a while and was not impressed. It's a one-sized-fits-all acoustic preamp, that IMO was not voiced well for upright bass. It was very sterile sounding, and I had to cut massive mids and treble on it to get a passable bass sound put of it. The DI on it is noisy, so much so that I sent mine back for a replacement just to have the same issue (and I tested it with every component imaginable to rule out some other issue).

    The fdeck is a nice piece of gear to have, but it won't help you shape your tone.

    Question to the OP - are you running the output of the Sansamp into an amplifier, or to a PA?
     
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  12. Trimmo91

    Trimmo91

    Apr 29, 2015
    Uk
    I use a Sansamp paradriver and I love it. Combined with a kna db1 I get an amazing sound for swing/ jump blues/rockabilly.

    Rumble filter engaged, bass at maximum, treble at 12 o clock and mid at 10 o clock on just over 750 hz. Drive at 9 o'clock and blend in full.

    20200103_214233.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  13. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    Hello,

    A Sansamp paradriver in France, Europe, new = 250 € Headway edb-2 = 270 € and the radial pz deluxe ( not the tonebone ) around 260 € and more.

    Fdeck HPF ? I will check this, but never see it in europe.

    Thank's for the advices ! :)
     
    Chris Fitzgerald likes this.
  14. Mister Cbass

    Mister Cbass

    Jun 30, 2011
    France
    Love that, about the Volkswagen ..... ah ah :) In europe and France the standard size are différent, a Volkswagen golf here, it's considered like a mid size car, we use it as familial car.... or I think in usa this type of car is more considered like a car for the kids, or a small car for the city, the 3eme car....
    Not to expensive, but here it's quite expensive car ( first price, 25.000 € and more with option, bigest engine etc)

    ^^ here there is no problem to fit an upright into a Volkswagen or other ( I'have a skoda fabia = Volkswagen polo )
     
    Michael F Clef likes this.
  15. Martin Spure

    Martin Spure

    Feb 4, 2020
    Denmark
    Re: Volkswagen (sorry, for continuing being off topic, but Mr. Cbass' post instantly brought me down memory lane ;)). When I got my first 3/4 upright in 1992, we used to lug it around in a 1982 Ford Fiesta (same colour) :

    IMG_1141.JPG

    Front passenger seat reclined all the way; bass body resting on the front seat; Roland bass cube + tenor sax in the trunk; 2 meter (6,5 feet) tall saxplayer squeezed in the back seat behind my driver's seat :D . As there was no headrest on the front seat, his knees were literally (!) in my neck, although I had my driver's seat pushed all the way forward (like an old lady). Tight fit, but it worked :laugh:. For us 2 nineteen year old blokes, this car was a bleedin' limo :thumbsup:

    Sorry, back to topic :)
     
  16. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I should make it clear. This was a student of mine years ago who had a Volkswagen Beetle. (bug) The neck stuck out the window.
     
  17. Michael Glynn

    Michael Glynn

    Feb 25, 2004
    Seattle
    This makes sense in theory, but I remember trying out a BDDI head to head with a Paradriver back when I was using an Underwood. The BDDI sounded noticeably better to me and another bassist who was there. I wasn't expecting that result.

    I was generally using the BDDI (old model) with the EQ pretty flat and just adjusting a little for the room. I usually had presence way down, blend around 3 o'clock, drive around 9 o'clock. Really helped with the sound of the Underwood and seemed to make the midrange actually sound OK.

    When it comes to the recording studio with good mics and acoustics, I'm opposed to having much added tube "warmth" and compression and that kind of thing. But..... I feel like most piezo pickups need a lot of help just to not sound like garbage. The last thing I want is for my amp to accurately replicate the direct sound of an Underwood...
     
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  18. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Yes. The older BDDI has a mid dip that the newer model hasn't got. Also adding more of the blend takes away upper mids and highs a bit. Also.... EVERY BASS IS DIFFERENT!!! Your mileage may vary.
     
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  19. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    From my perspective, the EDB-2’s features and compact size are it’s strengths. The Notch Filter, 5 Band EQ, Phantom Power, Phase Reverse, Dual Channel and Master Volume Controls. et. al. make it a excellent DB preamp. The new Headway EDB-2 H.E. has 48v Phantom, Two channel full 5 Band EQ, but if you only need a single channel piezo the Sans Amp is perfectly fine, and less expensive.
     
  20. sean_on_bass

    sean_on_bass

    Dec 29, 2005
    USA
    IMO the differentiator of the Sansamp is primarily in the tube emulation circuit. I think it is a different beast altogether when put up against the more traditional line of acoustic preamp. I used to use a bass driver on my electric and it made a huge difference in the overall tone output when the blend was dialed to the right. A very colored sound that would make any bass i plugged into it sound pretty similar, which is great if you like the color which i did. I would assume it would have a similar effect on the upright but i sold mine before i got a chance to try it.
     
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