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For All You Schroeder Cab Heads - Your Experience is Requested!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BuffaloBob4343, Oct 24, 2005.


  1. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Hey guys.

    I have an XS800H Yorky with which I am currently driving an Avatar 210 and 115 stacked. Now that I have a couple of really nice axes, I am becoming much more critical of my rig's sound quality.

    I am seriously thinking of going Schroeder and I would like your opinions.

    Given that my head is "only" 800 watts, it seems best suited to a 1210 rated at 850 watts. No overhead there, but the Yorky can be limited before it clips and besides, from what I hear about the Schroeder's, you probably will not get to that point anyway. I'm sure that combo would do for small to medium gigs.

    Now, for maximum versatility (i.e. to cover a broader range of gigs), would I be better off just getting a heftier amp and getting a large box (21012 or 410), or just simply adding another yorky xs800h (You can run them piggybacked) and drive twin 1210s?

    I paid only $540 for my first Yorky, so I'm sure I could add the second one for under $600.

    Also, with regard to the 1210, I've heard lots of people rave about them, but do they fall short (no pun intended) for bigger gigs because they are so low to the ground? Would you stack them if you were playing two? Would you elevate them or does that ruin the low-end response?

    I know these are a lot of questions, but I know some of you guys are so high on these Schroeder cabs you won't be able to resist throwing in your ten cents LOL! :D
     
  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    I'd also check out the 1212. That's what I have, and its been excellent. It's tight and punchy like 10s but has more low end happening. Good to 1000w too. I wouldn't worry about underpowering...I'm using a 300w amp without any problems.

    No problems with having it on stage level either, because of the angled baffle, it disperses sound better than most bigger cabs. Also, because the 12s are pretty tight, it doesn't seem to get tubby from sitting on stage.

    For a while I used mine with an avatar 112, and I ended up unplugging the Avatar as it couldn't keep up with the Schroeder. The Schroeder could get way louder, way lower and cleaner.
     
  3. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Thanks for the comments, brother! I guess I didn 't think of the 1212 only because I also have an Avatar 212 and I am not all that impressed with it to be honest.

    So it sounds like your 1212, even though driven with less than 300 watts, is serving you well then? That's pretty awesome. So it sounds like if I wanted to go 21012 with 800 watts, that would still be cool.

    I am really tempted to dump my avatars and pick up a Schroeder.
     
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Yeah, my Avatar doesn't sound good with my current head (Mesa 400+)...it used to sound ok with my ol' Hartke 3500 Mosfet head. The Schroeder isn't even in the same ballpark. It is a bit more modern sounding than any of my older gear, and certainly more than the Avatar, which is very traditional sounding.

    Because the Schroeder is very efficient, it doesn't hunger for wattage like a Acme...
     
  5. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Your 800 watt head should be more than fine with either the 1212 or 1210. I use a Thunderfunk 400 watt head with either of mine, and they sound great!
     
  6. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    Keep the Yorkie...does it go down to 2 ohms? If so, get a single 1210 or 1212. If that doesn't fit your needs get a second one.

    Take both cabinets to your gigs, hook 'em up, and decide if you need two. If you'e gonna get two cabinets, I think I'd get the 1212 and 1210 combo. Again more versatility.

    I've never been a proponent of putting your cabinet on a stand, chair, milk crate, or whatever. I can stand next to, in front of, or even slightly behind my 1210 and hear me perfectly. Obviously, if you band is tremendously loud on stage, which by the types of music you play, maybe they're not, you might have more difficulty hearing yourself but with the Schroeder so far my stage experience has been exceptional, especially considering it's one cabinet.

    Lkaye
     
  7. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Thanks for the help guys. Yes, my band can be pretty loud, but it sounds like those medium boxes can handle it,

    The yorkie does not permit a 2 ohm load, but it would cost less than $600 to add another.

    I guess the other option is to buy the 21012 right off and drive it with the Yorkie and see how it sounds. If 800 watts isn't enough, I could always buy a beefier amp.

    There is a music store here in Houston that supposedly carries Schroeders, so I think I should see what they have in stock and try playing them with my Yorky to see how they sound.
     
  8. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Oops, I was wrong about this. There are no dealer reps in Tejas!

    Guess I'll have to do my best guess. :meh:
     
  9. BassIan

    BassIan Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2003
    Cupertino, California
    If you want to add more power this way, why not add a power amplifier instead of a whole new head? With something from QSC's RMX series of amps, your price will still be low, and it could be a significantly more powerful addition than another Yorkville.

    Indeed, the general impression around here is that the Schroeders are very *sensitive* cabinets (remember, efficiency is very different than sensitivity). They'll be quite potent without ridiculous amounts of power.
     
  10. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    I run my 1210 with a 600 watt Acoustic Image Focus. It supposedly is more of a "quiet" 600 watts whereas their new 800 watt head is "louder" or as people generally say "conservatively rated at 800 watts."

    Yes, if I run the lows boosted to a great extent, I can fart out the cabinet, but you don't need to do so, even in acoustically perfect rooms. Does your band run you through the PA? If so, your Yorkville with 800 watts and a 1210 or 1212 will be plenty to be heard on stage, but I wouldn't run your tone full dub, reggae. Run your rig's bass boost/cut flat and same on your bass guitar and it will really take a monster volume setting to break up even the 1210 cabinet.

    If you don't get PA support, I would step up to the 21012 and again, keeping in mind that the cabinet is super efficient and has a useable low frequency of 35hz, you don't need to boost up the bottom on your head or bass to project really nice phat, yet punchy low end.

    You absolutely do not need more wattage to get a stage and I feel a venue volume of great magnitude using your Yorkie with 800 watts and the Schroeder large boxes with or without PA support, and you definitely would have enough stage volume for sure and in some places venue volume enough with the medium boxes if you have PA support, but I'll tell you I have enough stage and venue volume with my 1210 and 600 watts for all my non PA gigs.

    There are just a couple of places where the 410 is a little easier to hear on stage even though I don't need it's extra volume in the venue regardless of PA or no PA support.

    I hope this makes sense? I usually lose people by the second sentence.

    Lkaye
     
  11. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    So I guess I could run my prem-amp out from the Yorky into the QSC?

    I guess I need to look into that. So you can get 800 watts for less than the $550-600 for another XS800H?
     
  12. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Didn't lose me Larry! I've read many of your Schroeder posts and appreciate all of the information.

    PA support is sometimes yes, sometimes no. But if you think 800 watts is enough to drive either of the large boxes, then it sounds like I could do what you are doing and have a medium box for portability and small gigs and a large box for the bigger ones.

    Then if down the road I think I want more power for the large box, I can always upgrade my amp. Sounds like I should start with the large box, which covers the most range, and then add a smaller one for easier portability later.

    Now the question is, 21012 or 410? HMMMM!
     
  13. seaKamp

    seaKamp

    Jun 30, 2005
    Chicago
    You are in the same boat as me! :hyper:

    I just e-mailed Jorg today asking him about it. It is killing me trying to decide between the two. I wish I had the cash to buy one of each and also a 1210 for smaller gigs :cool:
     
  14. spooner2112

    spooner2112

    May 24, 2004
    Arlington, Va
    I ordered the Schroeder 21012 last week. I plan to use it only with my Ampeg SVT-3Pro head, which is 450W into 4 Ohms. I never considered that there might be an issue with the amp being underpowered. Will this be a problem?

    Currently, I run the Ampeg with a 410 (I've been buying and returning various cabs from GC until the Schroeder arrives) with no problems getting sufficient volume or headroom, even for no PA support gigs in small/medium clubs. I had assumed the same would be true using the Schroeder.
     
  15. bigtexashonk

    bigtexashonk Supporting Member

    If you're in the DFW area anytime soon, you're more than welcome to bring your head over and try it on my 1212.
     
  16. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    Wow! That is mighty neighborly of ya Big Tex!!

    I haven't been up that way in some time, but I will be sure to give you the heads up if I do.

    I take it you are pleased with your 1212??
     
  17. BuffaloBob4343

    BuffaloBob4343 Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    Buffalo, NY
    I am no expert, but in principal it is not a problem if:

    1) the speaker cab you are driving is efficient (doesn't require a lot of power to get loud); and

    2) you don't try to run the amp volume to the point where the output signal begins to distort, which can then damage the speaker even though you are nowhere near the speaker's rated capacity.

    My understanding is that Schroeder Cabs are very efficient and many have stated already that they are driving these cabs with amps rated for significantly less than what the cabs can handle and they are fine.

    I would imagine you will sound great with that Ampeg and Schroeder combo.
     
  18. spooner2112

    spooner2112

    May 24, 2004
    Arlington, Va
    Or more accurately: I would sound great if I wasn't such an amateur no-talent hack. :rolleyes:

    Good to know there shouldn't be a technical problem, however. Thanks for the info.
     
  19. bigtexashonk

    bigtexashonk Supporting Member

    I have been thrilled with the 1212. Powering it with a Thunderfunk TFB550 and a lethal combination it is. Doesn't hurt a bit that Jorg and Dave are the best either.
     
  20. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    There are plenty of 212 cabinets out there that are plenty loud in literally every circumstance. YOU MAY NOT NEED TO GET A 21012....or a 410. A 1212 or a 1210 with the 800 watt head should be enough to fill most medium sized venues with no PA support. The 21012 and 410 for the amount of volume and tone you get outta them versus the weight and size is still extraordinary. That's not saying that these cabinets are liteweight, because they aren't!! I'm already resigned to not using the 410 any more unless the cabinet's weight can be cut down by 25 or more pounds. It's just too difficult for me to shlepp around.

    If the 21012 sounds more like the 1210 or 1212 than the 410, I would recommend that cabinet. I really like the tone of the 1210 more than the 410 as I've said on other posts. I'm also just starting to realize that the 1210 is pulenteeeeeee loud in all but the most extreme circumstances and now that I'm "learning" how to deal with PA support personnel more and more (first soundmen in 38 years with my recent 25 fill gigs over the past 4 months), I don't feel I need the medium cab for x and y gigs, and the larger cabs for super x and super y gigs. Just take the 1210 and crank 'er a little harder at the venues that can take it.

    That's all folks.

    Lkaye