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For luthiers: a opinion

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by umberto, Jun 11, 2004.


  1. umberto

    umberto

    Jun 10, 2004
    I've decided (almost...)! What do you think about this:

    neck (5 pieces): bubinga-purple heart-cocobolo-purple heart-bubinga

    fretboard (fretted): ebony

    body: honduran mahogany

    top: bocote

    I think it will sound good (great??? :eyebrow: ).
    I need your opinion (expecially criticism).
     
  2. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    well, I think that if it is solidly built, it can sound fine. I think you should make the neck one less cocobolo strip. Make is one center strip. I think the pickups will make the biggest difference here.
     
  3. tjclem

    tjclem Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 6, 2004
    Central Florida
    Owner and builder Clementbass
    It will be a very heavy solid neck be sure to use light tuners and or position your strap hangers correctly. Sounds nice. I have a big slab of Purpleheart I need to cut into. I haven't worked with it yet...Good Luck...tom
     
  4. umberto

    umberto

    Jun 10, 2004
    Yeah!!! Sure: in my last post I made a mistake: just one cocobolo strips (in the middle; infact it was 5 pieces not 6 :p ). Better if I correct it! I'm gonna do it :D
    Thanks guys
     
  5. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    sweet, you know you absolutely must post pics.
     
  6. Pete skjold

    Pete skjold

    May 29, 2004
    Warsaw Ohio
    Hey man, That will be one serious neck! What glue will you use ? Yellow glue wont work on the cocobolo, the wood ,it is far to oilly and will let go after a while. What type of truss rod are you going to use? I would recommend a dual action rod because the neck might need some forward bow added to it at first until it settles in. It will be very stiff. As far as the sound , it will be very peonounced in the midrange and compress the lowend. Like a Warwick type of sound. I would recommend a slow cure epoxy or polyurathane glue like gorilla glue for the glue up of the neck blank and the fingerboard. Make sure you keep the glue out of the truss rod cavity!!!

    If you need any other advice let me know and good luck.

    Pete
     
  7. tjclem

    tjclem Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 6, 2004
    Central Florida
    Owner and builder Clementbass
    Never use Gorilla glue for a fingerboard. I made that mistake. If you have to replace the fingerboard you will throw the neck away. Wipe both surfaces with acetone then use titebond..........t
     
  8. Rapscallion2112

    Rapscallion2112

    Apr 21, 2004
    Detroit
    thats gonna be one crazy neck. just make sure you glue it with glue that will hold all of them. id like to see pictures of that when you do that.
     
  9. umberto

    umberto

    Jun 10, 2004
    Thank you Pete!
    In my mind there are the Dual Action Truss Rod (Spoke Nut Hot Rod) and a Graphite reinforced adjustable truss rod, but i'm still loocking for a 2-way adjustable graphite reinforced truss rod. Does it exist or have I to customize it :eyebrow: ?

    P.S.
    I've alredy found this: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_r...Carbon_Fiber/Instructions/I-4007.html#details
     
  10. Pete skjold

    Pete skjold

    May 29, 2004
    Warsaw Ohio
    What do you mean by a graphite reinforced truss rod ? Do you mean A truss rod and graphite reinforcement spars on each side?
    Luthiers mercantile or LMI , has dual action truss rods and a wide selection of graphite spars. They do carry graphite U-channel that is designed to have a truss rod sit in it but this might make the channel in the neck too deep for a dual action truss rod. Check them out and see what they have.

    www.lmii.com
    Pete
     
  11. Suburban

    Suburban

    Jan 15, 2001
    lower mid Sweden
    That neck is much too heavy.
    Go for ovangkol and padouk, instead of bubunga and purpleheart. Similar colours, stiff enough and much lighter.

    Cocobolo is not for load carrying laminations, because it is remarkably difficult to glue. I've even heard of instanses, where epoxi didn't manage to keep it together... :( :bawl:
     
  12. Bass Kahuna

    Bass Kahuna

    Dec 3, 2002
    West Lafayette, Indiana
    Luthier, Custom Builder
    I'll add support to the stiffness of such a neck. I'm finishing up a 6 string that I made the neck with a center of coco bolo, then two thin flamed maple stringers, then the outsides of padauk. It is one STIFF mofo, but I wanted it to give the low B string a very stiff neck to keep it from being too floppy. It looks gorgeous too! Here is a pi or two:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I've got another neck with a center of coco bolo, then two strips of canary and the outsides of bubinga. Gonna be another "stiffy". It is getting a swamp ash headstock and swamp ash body wings.

    I've also got a neck I'm experimenting with that has a center of paduak, then two purpleheart stringers, and the outsides of teak! I found a gorgeous piece of teak in a local lumber store that had some nice colors and some flame figuring in it and thought I'd experiment a bit. That one is going to get walnut body wings and a walnut headstock.

    :^)~
     
  13. umberto

    umberto

    Jun 10, 2004
    Hi tjclem!
    Where can I found Titebond (alifatic resin?)? McDowell and LMII don't seem to sale it.
     
  14. schuyler

    schuyler

    Aug 5, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    you can get titebond at most any woodworking or home improvement store. also available are titebond II and III, which have slightly different characteristics. check out www.titebond.com for full product specs.

    i worry that you'll find this bass rather heavy... don't know if it's a neck-through or a bolt-on, but if it's a neck-through my main worry is that it will be far too neck heavy, given the lighter mahogany for the body. if it's a bolt-on then the center of gravity will be even further out the neck, exacerbating the problem. you'll have to do some creative designwork to keep the neck on this one from diving.

    not to contradict anyone's experience, but i haven't had any troubles gluing up cocobolo... i just clean it with acetone first, the same as i'd do for teak.
     
  15. Mudfuzz

    Mudfuzz

    Apr 3, 2004
    WA...
    DO NOT USE TITEBOND II FOR INSTRUMENT BUILDING. The stuff doesn't harden properly, isn't easy to disassemble, trust me I KNOW. :mad:

    This might help, http://www.mimf.com/minifaq.htm scroll down to the bottom [Q. What's the best glue]
     
  16. tjclem

    tjclem Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 6, 2004
    Central Florida
    Owner and builder Clementbass
    "you can get titebond at most any woodworking or home improvement store. also available are titebond II and III, which have slightly different characteristics. check out www.titebond.com for full product specs.

    i worry that you'll find this bass rather heavy... don't know if it's a neck-through or a bolt-on, but if it's a neck-through my main worry is that it will be far too neck heavy, given the lighter mahogany for the body. if it's a bolt-on then the center of gravity will be even further out the neck, exacerbating the problem. you'll have to do some creative designwork to keep the neck on this one from diving.

    not to contradict anyone's experience, but i haven't had any troubles gluing up cocobolo... i just clean it with acetone first, the same as i'd do for teak."

    I agree with all of the above. If you haven't built the body extend the top horn to a spot even with the 10th or 11th fret and put the rear strap hanger closer to the spot where your right arm touches the bass and further away from the control pot area.........if you can understand what I am trying to say.Also use light tuners.That should help balance it....t
     
  17. schuyler

    schuyler

    Aug 5, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    other ideas to help balance the bass:

    increase the size (mass) of the body
    keep the control cavity as small as possible
    use a heavier bridge than normal
    go with a 18v preamp instead of a 9v -- that extra battery is pretty heavy for it's size
    metal knobs instead of wood or plastic
    keep the headstock as small as possible
    cut the body thicker -- maybe 1 7/8" rather than 1 3/4"
    rout some pockets in the body and fill them with lead shot :eyebrow:

    i agree that titebond II is harder to disassemble, but that's an advantage in certain instances. i don't want to steam apart the laminations in the neck, even though it's nice to be able to do so to a fingerboard. i don't know about not hardening properly. i've never had a problem with soft joints, and i go through a 55 gallon drum of the stuff every few weeks. maybe bad temps? or too thick a spread?
     
  18. DW

    DW

    Jun 22, 2000
    Pardon me, but that's just a complete crock about Titebond II not hardening properly. Take a good look at Ken Smith's two posts in this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124760 : 12+ years using Titebond II, zero failures. And he produces hundreds of basses a year.

    MIMF put it in their FAQ based on a couple of people who complained, without investigating to see if it was true or if it was being used properly by the people who reported problems. Well, MIMF's owner can put whatever she wants in the FAQ over there, but it's still wrong, and it shouldn't be repeated here.

    I have used Titebond II in several woodworking projects. If you use it according to instructions, it dries hard as a rock, just like Ken said.
     
  19. Mudfuzz

    Mudfuzz

    Apr 3, 2004
    WA...
    I have got Tb II to work, and infact have had only one time I didn't perform as I would have liked, [and I DID FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS] which was on a fingerboard. I Will admit that There might be other reasons then the glue it self: when the glue was made, the temperature / humidity [I live in Seattle, lots of humidity, hard to control in my current shop] ect. I have never had a problem with any other glue. I got it to work but it was a hassle. I have used it other times and I haven’t had any problems with it, but I will not recommend it, there are other glues I like much better. I prefer Polyurethane glues, but that’s just me.

    If Ken Smith likes TB II, I don’t have any qualms about that. But I’ll bet that they went through a lot of testing on the best way to handle it and set up accordingly.
     
  20. DW

    DW

    Jun 22, 2000
    There are other glues I like better too, it's not as user-friendly as some others, but I've used it for some outdoor projects and it's worked well.

    Now MIMF offers a lot of valuable information and different viewpoints on ways to get things done. And I appreciate that. But several long-timers and/or staff members dominate a lot of discussions with their own biases and some of their own unorthodox methods -- for example, gluing down fretboards with epoxy. Hey, if it works for a few of them, that's fine. But it's not done that way in the industry, which uses Titebond and lots of clamps.

    That's okay as long as it's on their board. What bothers me is the way certain prejudices at MIMF seem to get spread around to other boards as fact. Like the Titebond II story.