"Free Money"

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by 48thStreetCustom, Aug 28, 2019.


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  1. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    This is... interesting. "Gesell wanted to create a new kind of money — a money that would 'rot like potatoes' and 'rust like iron' so no one would want to hoard it."

    The 'Strange, Unduly Neglected Prophet'
     
  2. OldDog52

    OldDog52 Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 1, 2011
    Pacific Northwest
    I never actually learned to play very well
    That’s a good read. Thanks for sharing.
     
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  3. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    "Gesell called it 'free money' (or Freigold) — 'free' because he believed it would be freed from hoarding and also because it would encourage bankers to lend money without charging interest."

    I don't think I can get behind this part. Banks aren't a charity. And interest is based on risk.
     
  4. In the countries with negative interest presently their banks make it up in fees on their lending. Count on the banks to stay ahead of the game always. Who do you think makes the interest on savings in a negative interest regime? The banks! Guess who is promoting negative interest?
     
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  5. knumbskull

    knumbskull

    Jul 28, 2007
    UK
    Good article, thanks!

    I was daydreaming something similar to this a while ago :D like what if everyone’s bank balance reset to 0 at the end of a given cycle.

    not in as much detail as this guy though :ninja:
     
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  6. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Even without getting into politics (which is the place this should be discussed, and where it will end up), I have so many problems with this:

    1. What about people too old or sick to work?
    2. So people have no incentive to save for their children's education, etc.
    3. In the end, the super rich will be the only ones with reserves. The middle class, who can't afford the fees, will have no savings to fall back upon.
     
  7. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois
    Governments spend large amounts of money on replacing money that already wears out too quickly. Printing money and minting coins isn't cheap.

    If they started making money that was purposely designed to go bad quickly, governments would go broke replacing it all the time.

    Some ideas sound good inside the head of the person who first thinks them up, but turn out to be less than smart upon further consideration.
     
  8. That seems like a financial "hold my beer and watch this."
     
  9. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Thank you @buldog5151bass for the reminder not to discuss politics here. So far this thread has done so, and it will remain open as long as it stays that way.

    -Mike
     
  10. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois
    For many people, including myself, physical money is becoming almost obsolete. My paycheck is direct deposited into my bank account and I pay for more than 95% of my bills and purchases with a debit or credit card or the occasional check.

    I rarely spend more than $30 a week on actual cash transactions, and even most of those I have the option to use virtual money but still use cash out of habit.
     
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  11. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    You have to remember that this was published in 1891, when people used with physical money, or physical checks/notes. The concept of digital money was not a concept. That's why we used to have paper money in the US valued as high as $10,000, but the largest today is $100. If this concept ever were to be considered today, it would automatically be deducted from bank and other accounts, or people would be required to pay it in a tax, like our income tax.

    Another issue. How would you go after the billions of dollars in investment accounts, stocks, hard assets (gold, valuable art, etc.)? Again, the people who would be hurt would not be the rich, but the middle and lower classes, who would not have as easy access to these non-monetary ways of storing assets.
     
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  12. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    Also, it often takes time to raise funds/capital.
     
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  13. Um... This thread is confusing.
    Do I need to go purchase some gift cards to mail to you or are we using good ol' Western Union?
     
  14. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois
    Right. Whatever bit of sense this idea may have had over a century ago, has since completely vanished.

    Almost everything we know about the science of economics and monetary theory started in the first half of the 20th century with John Maynard Keynes and those who followed.
     
  15. Nashrakh

    Nashrakh

    Aug 16, 2008
    Hamburg, Germany
    I've read about Gesell when I was studying economics (got my Bachelors four years ago... How time flies) and never in a thousand years would I have thought that anyone still deliberated his ideas. Huh. You never know.

    The problem with Gesell is that it only adresses interest banking (which some have thought of as antisemitic in motivation), but does nothing against crises of overaccumulation - quite the contrary.
     
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  16. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Inflation would accomplish the same objective.

    Governments supply physical money as a service. It is an almost negligible fraction of the so called money supply. At first glance it would seem to be obsolete in the digital age, but it is practically the only way to exchange money without someone charging a service fee, and also the only option for people who don't have reliable access to banking services.
     
  17. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    To issue is who takes the fee, how much, and what they do with it. But it's impossible to discuss that here.
     
  18. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    That doesn't seem like it would be rocket science to find out. For instance the credit card system is probably fairly complex, but we know that merchants pay a fee that's roughly proportional to the amount of the transaction. According to this article, it typically ranges from 1% to 3% of the transaction.

    The Truth About Credit Card Swipe Fees
     
  19. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Yes, but that is contract to use a service with a private company - totally voluntary, as you are paying for the use of that service. The article can only be talking about government.
     
  20. When NZ got eftpos (electronic funds transfer point of sale) the banks were ecstatic at not having to process cash and happy to take direction from the Govt that they couldn't charge for eftpos, as a quid pro quo. 30 years later we get blasted by TV adverts to win an All Black to mow your lawn by waving your debit card chip instead of doing the PIN.

    They didn't tell the cafes they would get dinged credit card merchant fees on the debit cards traditionally run through the cheque and savings options on their eftpos systems. A few weeks later and all the ''no paywave'' behind the cellotape on the top of the eftpos machines appeared.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jun 22, 2021

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