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frequency respone...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BornUnwanted, Feb 18, 2002.


  1. i have a 5 string and i play in B, sometimes in A, i was planning on getting an SWR 6x10 cab. the site says:

    -3dB @ 55Hz and 14KHz

    so, from what i read, i soppose what i want isn't ideal for what i have?
     
  2. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    You won't know until you play through it at a store. Specs don't tell the whole story.
     
  3. I have played both the SWR 6x10 and own a SWR 8x8, so if your looking for just freq-resp I'd go with the 8x8.

    The 6x10 will handle more power and but the 8x8 will give you those extended lows that i craved!!
     
  4. This cab is very similar to the Ampeg 610 and the Carvin RC210 in the bass rolloff characteristics.

    -3dB at 55 Hz means the fundamental is audibly quieter from the open A string and lower. This also means the open E fundamental is much reduced and the open low B string fundamental is hardly there at all.

    Many players are perfectly happy not hearing the low fundamental (1st harmonic) at all, and fully content with the 2nd harmonic and higher. The 2nd harmonic of low B is 62 Hz and well within the full power range of this cab. Your ears will let you know.

    Use the specs to get you into the ballpark for your needs. They will tell you if something is worth considering or not. Use your ears to make the final judgment.
     
  5. mgood

    mgood

    Sep 29, 2001
    Levelland, Texas
    Everybody, write that down somewhere where you won't lose it.
     
  6. I think I will get it tatooed on my rear. :D
     
  7. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    Ditto bgavin. I would suggest you play through a system that does the fundamental to aid in your decission making. The problem is that most retail stores do not display systems with this ability, and you may not be interested in handeling mulitpal cabinets and amplifiers.
    The new Accugroove cabinets may very well simplify reproducing low bass using a single enclosure.
     
  8. :confused: I don't get it. Looking at SWR's site I get pretty confused. Howcome a 8x8 cab goes deeper than a 2x15? And why does a 4x10 go deeper than a 6x10. Is it all about how the cab is buildt? Could any body point me to a tutorial on this frequency thing? Or just tell me what does "-6db@35 hz and 18khz" (Henry the 8th) compared to "-3db @ 40hz and 15khz"(Goliath III) and "-3db @45hz and 15khz" (Son of Bertha) mean? Would I have to get a Big ben (1x18 -6db@25hz and 3khz) to add real low end to my Goliath, or would a 1x15 do, even though the specs say it doesn't go as deep as my Goliath? (I'm only talking about freq- response here, I know different speakers will sound different, and I have to decide which sound I want, but if I want to be guided in my first steps I have to understand what the figures tell me)

    Please enlighten me...
     
  9. 15" drivers require a lot of cabinet volume to get down low. High efficiency 15" require anything from 10 cubic feet to 50 cubic feet, depending on the driver. Low efficiency subwoofers can get down low, and in smaller cabs, but they trade away loudness. My subs are running in 5.4 cubic feet net volume (20x20x31") and are flat below 31 Hz. They are miserably inefficient at 89 SPL, and require enormous amounts of power to drive them to any appreciable loudness.

    Smaller drivers like 8s and 10s require significantly less cabinet volume. The magnetic motor strength to cone weight (Bl : Mms) ratio is higher in 10" drivers. A 4" voice coil on a JBL E110 has tighter control than the same 4" voice coil on a JBL E155 18" driver. 10s have more punch than cheap 15s, for most bass players.
     
  10. Suburban

    Suburban

    Jan 15, 2001
    lower mid Sweden
    I won't....
    I'll just second your thoughts. This is a major mess!

    What you and I are interested in is to have a comparison standard. And we are interested in having as flat freq response as possible.

    Meaning that we want all frequency response data at +/-3dB.

    The manufacturers do not give that as standard, there is not even standards within each company! So, what do we do, we, the comsumers, the end users?
    We should demand a standard.
    We do it buy contacting the manufacturer we find interesting and ask for the data at +/-3dB. And at the same time, tell them that it should be standard info in their product presentation.
     
  11. Hey Suburban, nice to know there's people almost as ignorant as me :D
    But you atleast know what -3db means - I don't!
    Mayby you could enlighten me after all!!
     
  12. HiFi flat response may not be what you are looking for, so consider that. Many of the cabs out there have a hump (increase) in the mid-bass between 60 ~ 120 Hz. It has been demonstrated that many people find this both pleasing, and superior to a true flat response. It gives the impression of fat, solid bass, even though it is actually a full octave or more higher than the low fundamentals.

    I built a true flat-to-31 Hz rig, and my band leader is always bitching about me not having enough thump coming up from the floor. My low B rattles the plumbing in the men's room, but what he was wanting is that hump. I EQ'd the 80 ~ 120 range up +5dB and he is much happier. I think it sounds kinda fat and diffused, but he is paying the bill...
     
  13. Suburban

    Suburban

    Jan 15, 2001
    lower mid Sweden
    bgavin, that is what I would want. True flat cab response and a nice eq to adjust to the music, the "sound perception curve" and the room.

    carl-anton, "at -3dB" means that all freq's within an interval sounds as much, or at least not lower than 3dB less. And 3dB less means half as loud, -6dB means a quarter as loud, etc. The scale is logaritmic.
     
  14. -3dB is a clearly audible drop in sound pressure level, and half the electrical power.

    -10 dB is percieved as half the sound pressure level, and equals 1/10 the electrical power.
     
  15. But a cab that is rated -3db, is decent isn't it?
    And one more thing: When my Goliath III cabs are 700 watts, does it mean that they can handle more low end (if my amp is up to it (a bass 750))?

    Slowly I'm getting wiser... keep up the good work!

    Lars
     
  16. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Wide response is often overrated. I think most rock players really do NOT want wide, flat response.

    The Ampeg SVT cabinet is a classic...and has awful response: -3dB at 58 Hz and 5 Khz. But it sounds great!! Nobody goes around saying, "gee my SVT 8-10 is lacking in low end" or "I wish I could get a brighter sound out of it". Yet they DO complain about cabinets with tweeters sounding hissy or "sterile" and cabinets with super extended lows not being "punchy" enough.

    Part of this is psychological, the classic bass maps (SVT, B15, Acosutic 360, etc.) all were very LOW fi rigs and had a lot of coloration in the frequency response. This is the tone we are used to hearing so we accept this as "good" and more high fidelity reproduction as "bad".

    The SVT cabinet solved one interesting problem. At high volumes, deemphasizing the fundamental gets rid of muddiness and improves balance in response across the full range of the fingerboard.

    My advice is to not worry so much about spec sheets and spend more time listening to different cabinets.
     
  17. Look at an Acme then. I still think you should audition with the ears before making a final purchase. Use the specs to get close, then use your ears to make the decision.