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Friendly Fire

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Komakino, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. According to the news, a British Tornado has just been brought down by a US missile. Is there still a lack ot communication between coalition forces 12 years after all the friendly fire that occurred in the gulf? From what I understand the problem lies in that all US vehicles are equipt with an IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) system so they don't shoot their own vehicles, but the British don't have such a system. This makes me wonder two things:

    1. Why don't the British have this system? Surely it's a good idea.

    2. Why is friendly fire STILL occurring after all previous incidents?

    There's something wrong somewhere...
  2. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    Sadly, friendly fire is inevitable. So are fatal mechanical failures such as the helicopter that crashed with the commando team. So are fatal accidents such as the British helicopters colliding.

    These incidents have been magnified in the Iraq wars simply because there have been relatively few battlefield casualties.
  3. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    You can thank Donald Rumsfeld, who stopped the development of a new IFF project in 2001 (IIRC).
  4. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    21% of american casualties in world war 2 were friendly fire incidents. that's almost 250,000 wounded and dead. friendly fire has always been an aspect of war.
  5. Mike Money

    Mike Money Banned

    Mar 18, 2003
    Bakersfield California
    Avatar Speakers Endorsing Hooligan
    Weren't all American casualties in Desert Storm a result a result of friendly fire? Or atleast a great percentage of them?

    I think that nightvision is more of an enemy than a helpful tool. If you go outside in the dark, wait a minute or two, your eyes will adjust and you can see quite well. I think having night vision binoculars to use when you need, and not having that thing on your face that disallows your peripheral vision to work, would be a much better thing than goggles..

    As always, I could be wrong...
  6. No matter how much I hear it, I still can't get used to the term "friendly fire" ...
    In my opinion there is no such thing ... there is absolutely nothing "friendly" about incoming rounds.
  7. Mike Money

    Mike Money Banned

    Mar 18, 2003
    Bakersfield California
    Avatar Speakers Endorsing Hooligan
    One of Murphy's Laws of war was "Friendly Fire, isn't."

    Heck, I will list a few more:

    Bullets have the right of way.


    Whoops.. I forgot them all :D
  8. I heard it was 40%.
  9. Woodchuck


    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta (Grant Park!)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    Friendly Fire: The most deadly of all oxymorons!

    My uncle served in Vietnam, and he told me that a nervous Lt. called for air strikes on his OWN position, and wiped out about 90% of his men! He said that it happened alot.
  10. Johnalex


    Jul 20, 2001
    South Carolina
    This is sad.....imagine how the person who shot feels as well. The Iraqi REpublican Guard is now using woman and children as "shields"....:rolleyes:
  11. there was a comms failure between the plane and the missile.

    when the missile is homing, it sends out a characteristic "parrot squak" signal to the object which the missile is targeted upon. that signal in return, if able, was supposed to be acknowledged by the pilot (or any other person in charge of the target that of which the missile is homing) that in response was supposed to have sent out a signal characteristic to friendly forces, that exists in the patriot missile's system computer as a friendly signal, in order to make the missile divert. something obviously didnt happen during the time between when the missile was launched and when the missile struck the aircraft. that is also what the miltary says about this incident.
  12. Tsal


    Jan 28, 2000
    Finland, EU
    I think it also was reported that one US helicopter fired a missile at US tank during first couple days.. No casualties but the Abrams was wrecked.
  13. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    According to my experience that is incorrect.

    I've used SWAT issue nightvision goggles that are almost equivalent to what the military uses and your own natural night vision doesn't even compare. It's really something to experience. I could see much better than I could with my natural vision even after my eyes had adjusted to the darkness for a long time. Yeah, the peripheral vision thing is an issue but it's worth it to be able to see as well as if you were in daylight.

    brad cook
  14. im sure if they were a hinderance to a serviceman's abilities to engage in combat in the dim, america's elite, along with the sas, would not use them, let alone ordinary soldiers.
  15. P. Aaron

    P. Aaron Supporting Member

    With all the jeep and copter crashes, we're almost our own worst enemy.
  16. Tell me about it :( If the Iraqis wait long enough the coalition will wipe itself out.
  17. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    "Human error" - no matter what system you develop, it is only as good as the people who program it or use it.

    Given that there have been thousands of raids in a small space - one out of several thousand is pretty good for "human error" - it's usually much higher in any systems project!

  18. Murphy's war laws.

    Friendly fire - isn't.
    Recoilless rifles - aren't.
    Suppressive fires - won't.
    You are not Superman; Marines and fighter pilots take note.
    A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.
    If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
    Try to look unimportant; the enemy may be low on ammo and not want to waste a bullet on you.
    If at first you don't succeed, call in an air strike.
    If you are forward of your position, your artillery will fall short.
    Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than yourself.
    Never go to bed with anyone crazier than yourself.
    Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder
  19. Good old Murphy.
  20. jcadmus


    Apr 2, 2000
    Actually, I believe all allied aircraft have IFF capability -- it was the IFF program for ground units that was suspended.