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From Schroeder 410UL to Berg 2xAE112: What would I gain and sacrifice?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by malpasso, Apr 10, 2009.


  1. malpasso

    malpasso

    Apr 24, 2005
    Hi, TBers:
    I recently changend from an Aggie GS112 stack to a Schroeder 410Ul sigle cab and I must say the latter is tremendous in terms of volume, efficiency, clarity...The thing is that I miss the portability of the 2x112 mini-rig and I am seriously considering taking a step back to that sort of setup, not to Agguie -though- but to Bergantino AE112. I do need volume and clarity for my folk-rock 6 piece ensemble, as well as for my three piece funk-rock band.
    My question is that in the post title:
    Do you think going the Berg 2xAE112 stack will make me lose more than 20% of volume? That would be no problem, provided that I run my Mark Bass s-450 head at 9, 10 O'clock at most?
    Would I also miss the clarity of my Schroeder cab?
    Wouldn't I get a more polished, pleasant sound over the rather crude by itself Schro cab?
    Wouldn't it be more versatile in sound than the more rock oriented Schro?
    Before you ask me to try both setups and judge by myself, let me tell you that I haven't got the chance to do such a thing, as there are no Berg dealers in Spain.

    Thanx for your replies.:confused:
     
  2. IMO, you are right on the money. You will lose about 20% of absolute volume at most (from my experience comparing my 212's to my 410's), but you will gain a wider, smoother, more articulate tone that will still be nice and punchy. The Markbass heads are a VERY nice match with the AE line of cabs IMO, and the AE cabs are high SPL (lot's of volume per watt, just like the Schroeders).

    If you aren't totally cranking the Schroeder rig, you should be just fine.

    I guess the downside of 2 x 112 is you would need a cart, versus the ability to just put your head on top of the 410 and wheel it in with castors. That's a minor deal with most, and if you are already using a cart for your 410, it's obviously a zero issue.
     
  3. malpasso

    malpasso

    Apr 24, 2005
    Thanks KJ!
    It's a pleasure getting an opinion straight from the real person after reading you in other posts so many times!!:)
    Going back to the topic, I'm glad to hear what you say. Portability and smoother, rounder sound without excessive loss of volume and clarity is what I am seeking. I don't mind taking two trips from the car to the stage if they are light ones, rather than toting a heavy load around just once.
    Getting deeper into the versatility issue: do you think that stack can deliver rock, modern slap etc, when you need it, depending on what you put in?
    I forgot to mention I have also started on double-bass; and it seems to me that the more refined, boutique character of the Bergs -even a single one- would suit my DB better than a 4x10Schro (I cant even imagine that, oh my!), if I needed to use an amp (I went line, the only time I played my Db onstage.)
    Thanks again:)
     
  4. There's no reason that any good quality 2 x 12 stack with a high quality powerful head can't deliver all the volume and tone you need short of a massively loud gig on a huge stage, or a large gig without any front of house support. I've moved from using strictly 410's to a small 212 recently (that puts out about what the Berg stack would), and even though on rare occasion I miss the sheer, effortless wump of the 410, I like the smooth clarity and easy schlep of the 212's.

    DB is such a difficult thing to talk about, since each instrument interacts with all the different pickup types to make predicting what rig would sound getter or worse very difficult. I know one thing to think about is matching the pickup to the rather low input impedance of the MB heads. This is easily done with a preamp/buffer. That's a little bit out of my experience, but the guys over on the DB side will help you out.

    The only trouble with getting two high quality 112's is that it gets a bit pricey. However, that AE line of cabs is nice and punchy, even through the mids, and doesn't have such low end extension to cause trouble on stage. I'm pretty sure you will dig it, especially if you hear that Schroeder being just a touch to low mid punchy and feel you want a little more presence in the upper mids, and a little more 'rounded' tone, at the exense of a bit of absolute punch and volume.

    K

    Edit: I had one of Jorg's Neo 410's for a short while (I like to try all the lightweight stuff that seems innovative). It was one of the earlier models with the baffle design and Eminence Neo's. It wumped very nicely, but it really had a dip in the upper mids and a pretty big low mid push. That made it sound quite loud, but it just didn't have the ability to transmit either the grind or growl of a J bass, or the smooth upper mids of a more modern bass. It was all BIG PUNCH. That's not necessarily bad, depending on the tone you go for, but for me, the AE had similar punch, but just a much smoother voicing from the low mids all the way up to the upper treble. The AE cabs are not that 'Marcus Miller' super airy, smooth top end like the Epi cabs, but have more of an aggressive sort of lower treble voicing (this seems most prevalent in the AE410, and less in the AE210 and 112). I like it, and you can easily control it with the upper mid control of your SA450, set around 1K and dialed back a bit.
     
  5. malpasso

    malpasso

    Apr 24, 2005
    Thanx again, KJ:
    I think that's all I needed to take the step in the Berg mini-stack direction.
    Good luck and tons of pleasure with your music
    :)
     
  6. You too!
     
  7. malpasso

    malpasso

    Apr 24, 2005
    Ken!
    Thanks a lot for your advise. I eventually got the HT-EX112ER stack and these are my impressions as compared with the Schro:

    No noticeable volume loss. I keep my Markbass SA-450 at exactly the same default volume levels as before.
    Better clarity/focus: Whenever I cranked up the volume with the Schro. It got to a extent when you felt it needed to go too loud to be clearly distinct in the stage mix. At that point, I sometimes got complaints about excessive volume from the rest of the band... and I felt they were right. Now it's me who turns volume down without being asked to.
    Sweeter highs: The tweeter is amazing: now I never get that feeling that my ears could get pierced out of extreme highs with -for example- slap eq settings. Tonally speaking, it all gets down to one adjective: smooth.
    Better portability In spite of being rated too a mere 27 Kgrs, the handdle positions in the Schro made it difficult for me to lift it up, maneuvre at doors... I'd better take two trips with the comfy top handle in the Bergs. Also the modular character of this rig makes it better for me to play Tetris in my car boot.
    Enthusiast readers better take this with a grain of salt as I'm still in the "glowing review quarentine period". Once that has been said, I proclaim I'm extremely happy with the change!
    Hope this can help.
     
  8. allexcosta

    allexcosta

    Apr 7, 2004
    Congrats on the Berg route!
    Mini-amp in the gig bag, one cab on each hand and you're good to go.
     
  9. malpasso

    malpasso

    Apr 24, 2005
    You said it, man!:p
     

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