FYI: You have twice as many female ancestors

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by 48thStreetCustom, Oct 21, 2016.


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  1. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    "More men than women get squeezed out of the mating game. As a result, twice as many women as men passed their genes to the next generation.

    'It is a pattern that's built up over time. The norm through human evolution is for more women to have children than men,' said Jason Wilder, a postdoctoral fellow in UA's Arizona Research Laboratories and lead author on the research articles. 'There are men around who aren't able to have children, because they are being outcompeted by more successful males.'"

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040920063537.htm
     
  2. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    OK.

    -Mike
     
  3. I hate putting on wet socks in the morning.
     
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  4. Gorn

    Gorn

    Dec 15, 2011
    Queens, NY
    I wonder if on a whole, more individual men have impregnated multiple women than more individual women have had multiple children from different fathers.

    I don't have a source but I think I've read that for ideal genetic diversity men need to spawn with multiple women. That's why we can father children basically from puberty to death and women have a finite number of eggs and fertile years.
     
  5. Gaolee

    Gaolee Official leathers tester and crash dummy

    I only have one kid. My wife only has one kid. It's the same kid. We must be doing it wrong.
     
  6. GIBrat51

    GIBrat51 Innocent as the day is long Supporting Member

    Mar 5, 2013
    South Bend, Indiana
    Uh... don't think so. While it may be true (and probably is) that lots of males may wind up not passing their genes along, it's not really possible to have more female ancestors that male ones. Far as I know, it's pretty much always taken 1 man and 1 woman to create offspring. That man may have created offspring with more than one woman, but that doesn't alter the number and sex of my ancestors - or yours, either....;)
     
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  7. Gorn

    Gorn

    Dec 15, 2011
    Queens, NY
    I think it's referring to female lines being more varied than male maybe?
     
  8. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    The other thing about eggs and fertile years is that childbearing carries an enormous risk and cost. If the maternal death rate is any more than a few percent, then it doesn't matter how many eggs and fertile years you have, because you'll die before you use them.

    As I understand it (Dawkins talks about it in The Selfish Gene), there are two successful "strategies" of sexual reproduction. One is to produce a huge number of mostly unsuccessful gametes, with the hope that a small fraction survive. The other is to produce fewer gametes, but to maximize the survival potential of each one. The fact that both strategies can be successful at the same time within a given species is why there are two sexes. In a species without one of those two sexes, the missing sex would emerge to fill an ecological gap.

    It's possible to study the relative male and female contribution to our ancestry because mitochondrial DNA is only passed through the female line.
     
  9. GIBrat51

    GIBrat51 Innocent as the day is long Supporting Member

    Mar 5, 2013
    South Bend, Indiana
    Sorta; the link's referring to the fact that dominant males - of whatever species - have the offspring, and the rest of the males just hang around, and hope their chance will come next mating season... I've watched enough nature shows to know that... But, I was responding to the thread title, anyway...;)
     
  10. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado

    So maybe the point is that only the best males who prove themselves reproduce. Whereas any woman who wants can pass on here genes. So adaptation is based on males.
     
  11. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado

    I think I read somewhere that 1/3 of the world's population can be traced back to Genghis Khan.
     
  12. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    According the the scientists, 80% of our female ancestors mated with 40% or our male ancestors. So if one guy :whistle:'ed your great great great grandmother AND her five sisters, you have 4 more female than male ancestors.
     
  13. GIBrat51

    GIBrat51 Innocent as the day is long Supporting Member

    Mar 5, 2013
    South Bend, Indiana
    No, I don't. My great great great Aunts aren't my ancestors. They're just relatives - like my useless 3rd cousin, twice removed - but, only my great great great grandmother is MY ancestor - along with Mr. Horndog...;) Sorry, but you only get one biological Mommy and one biological Daddy per customer - regardless of how many other women's children can point to the guy and say "He's my Daddy!" too...:)
     
  14. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    Fine then you have more female relatives.
     
  15. I have more female sisters than male sisters. I only have one of those.
     
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  16. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    That's true in some sense, however, that woman's male offspring contain her genes, and they are either successful or not, so her genes still contribute to adaptation. Also, she has some genes that affect her ability to bear children. For instance, having a bigger pelvis increases her chance of surviving childbirth.
    Indeed. It's not that he was particularly prolific, but that our population could be traced back to anybody who lived before a certain time period, if they had any children at all. It's just that Ghengis Khan is more exciting than Joe Schmoe. The only way that this doesn't happen is if two populations are geographically isolated.
     
  17. Frank Tuesday

    Frank Tuesday

    Jul 11, 2008
    Austin, TX
    This is just like compound interest. Going back 1,2 or even 20 generations is not significant. If each generation sees 1.00009 times as many women reproduce than men who reproduce, after 8000 generations (~200,000 years, which is the estimated age of the human race), there are twice as many female ancestors as male ancestors.
     
  18. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado

    Hypothetically, let's say there was a male ape born 50m years ago that had a mutation that made it walk upright. All the other male apes laughed at him because he looked funny and walked weird but, since he walked upright, he could carry twice as many bananas with two hand. All the female apes said "look at this guy" and figured they could lay around up in the trees watching soap operas while he's out foraging all day. So they get all gussied up in their best fig leaves and start flirting with him because he was a better provider. Like any red blooded male, he :whistle:'s with as many female apes as he can.

    Now he ends up mating with 3 apes an all his offspring have the mutation. The male offspring are more desirable than the non mutants so they thrive and have mutant offspring and they have mutant offspring and so on down the line. And the mutant female offspring mate with non mutants and pass on the mutation generation after generation. After a few generations, the non mutant ape lines die off because no one wants to mate with them. Natural selection has weeded them out.

    Now, you could say that the females contributed healthy genes that made the genetic line thrive, but the adaptation came from the male. The male changed the entire species. He just wants to :whistle: as many females as he can since he has an endless supply of sperm. The females are the ones who do the selection of the male with the best gene because to maximize their chance of survival for their limited number of eggs.

    Also, they say Genhis Kahn had thousand of children from raping and pillaging. So he's an extra special case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  19. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois

    But mostly from raping.
     
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  20. 48thStreetCustom

    48thStreetCustom

    Nov 30, 2005
    Colorado
    Well the thing is, the mongols would murder all the male babies when they defeated an enemy. but no one would dare murder the Kahn's child.
     
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