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Gallien Krueger SBX / Eminence - Replacing the Woofer

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Pugz, Sep 4, 2005.


  1. AS you may have seen before in an older thread I was having problems with my 1001rb-II and my SBX115-II.

    I discovered the problem and it turns out the main woofer has blown. Because it has blown I doubt I will be able to get warranty on it, but I had the idea of replacing the main woofer with a new one.

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=20901&doy=4m9

    If you take a look at this link, you should see a: 380mm (15in) 400W Bass Speaker Manufacturer: Eminence

    I know that GK use this manufacturers speakers for the SBX cab, but I'm not 100% sure which speaker is the exact one I'm looking for. Although this speaker fits the specifications of the cab I want confirmation first that this is definately the one I am looking for.

    _______________________________________


    This is my first cab I have ever owned, as I have upgraded from a 30w practice amp. Until now I have had to use other peoples rigs for shows and I decided I wanted one so I could get my own settings just how I like them.

    But as I am pretty inexperienced with cabs, I had a few questions in mind which I'm sure you guys can answer ;)

    If you were to suddenely play the amp at a very large volume it possible it can blow the speaker right?

    If so, shouldn't these amps be made to cope with these kind of volumes? Especially when you are going to being Slap, because slap is so loud and punchy its going to cause a lot more stress on the speaker and couldn't it break it?

    Again, if this is the case how are you supposed to get to a high volume? If I was going to do a show and needed a lot of power, wouldn't it cause damage?

    Thanks for your help. :)
     
  2. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    How high was it turned up? With the single 1x15" cabinet, the power from the head is approximately 460W all the way up at 8 ohms. You could simply be overpowering the cabinet. And yes, I believe speakers need a bit of break-in time.

    Cabinets are made to cope with high volume levels, its just that you're not using one that way. You use multiple cabs... where at 8 ohms, your amp is only 460 watts, more than the speaker can handle, but crank it with a pair of these cabs. 700W total, 350W to each cabinet, and the speakers can handle this. Sounds like you're doing too much work with too few cabinets.
     
  3. It was turned up at about half way.

    The 1001rb-II is 700w + 50w horn biamp so does that mean its trying to push 700watts out of a 400watt cab?

    If so what volume should I stay under?

    I was also hoping to eventually purchase a SBX 410-II which is another 400watts at 8ohms.

    The combined power of the cabs will be 800watts yet the head will be 700watts + 50watt.

    Does this mean that the head is not powerful enough?

    I read that it should be enough to handle 2 SBX cabs.


    what do you mean by this?
     
  4. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    Eminence makes thousands of different speakers for manufacturers all over the world; when they do this they make the speaker to the manufacturers specs. You can probably not buy the exact speaker from an Eminence dealer, only GK can.

    No one can tell you what would be a good match for your cabinet without knowing the cab's internal volume and the size/volume of the port to determine it's tuning.

    I'd say you should buy a replacement from GK or plan on doing some research. The Delta 15 is towards the low end of drivers that Eminence makes and would not be my first choice.
     
  5. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    The 1001RB-II is 700W @ 4 ohms... which means you need either a pair of 8 ohm cabs or a single 4 ohm cab to get all 700W. I see you're using an 8 ohm 115SBX-II, which will only cause the head to use 460W. That's continuous power, not including peaks. At times, the amp puts out more than this and that's common among any manufacturer. Especially with slapping. Was the clipping light on at all? If it was, at high volumes, clipping the preamp is a really bad thing and can cause serious damage to speakers. Did the amp sound like it was farting when it still worked? That would be the speakers trying to reproduce squared off waves, which cause sudden changes in movement for the speakers. This essentially causes speaker whiplash, which if you've ever been in bumper cars, you know that this is bad.

    If you use two cabs, that'll be 700W total, 350 to each cab. It'll work, just make sure you aren't clipping the preamp by sending in too hot a signal.

    Also, how far up is your bass?
     
  6. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    Yes, GK offers replacement drivers. Talk to Gene Lopes at gene@gallien.com. He's always been helpful to me.
     
  7. I personally own the 1001RB-II. This head pushes 460w+50w at 8 ohms (which is what you are currently running). If you added another cabinet (say the 410 you talked about) you will be running at the minimum 4 ohms and then you'll be pushing the full 700w+50w. What the other guy was saying is the SBX is designed to handle 400w and since you are running 460w through it, you could over power your speakers by turning up your volume too high. You ask what volume is right not to over power, well use your hears, if you hear a "farting" kind of sound or your sound is distorted, turn down the power to speakers (the woofer knob). That way you can keep your gain at what you like (although on a GK the gain doesn't have as much effect as it would on an all tube or tube preamp). Right now I'm running the 1001 and the 410SBX but I don't turn the gain past 9:00 and everything else is flat to make sure that I don't kill my speakers. If you added another SBX you would have a total of 800w to work with so then if you push the full 700w out of the head you wont be trying to do too much with too little. Personally, I believe that if you like the punchy SBX cabinets then two of them is perfect to get the most out of the 1001RB-II. Will the head be powerful enough, to answer that, 700w coming out of cabinets handling 800w in my opinion is perfect. You more than likely wont be clipping your amp OR sending too much power to your cabinet.

    About breaking in the speakers, well its a lot like breaking in the engine on a brand new car. You don't want to go drag racing with an engine that hasn't had time to get the kinks out. You want to give it time to let all the parts settle and get used to working together. Same with speakers, you need to give them time to settle in and then you can push them closer and closer to the max.
     

  8. As for giving the speaker time to settle, how do you mean that?

    Do you mean that before everytime I need to turn it up loud I should give it 5mins playing it at a lower volume?

    If thats the case then it could cause some problems. If I was to 'warm up' my speakers at a sound check and then the next time I would play them is in 2hours when we'd actually be performing would they be Ok to go straight to gigging volume?

    Sry if this sounds a bit noobish but as I said, this is my first cab and I'm not that experienced with using them.
     
  9. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    First things first, I meant the bass on your EQ, not the volume on your axe, sorry for not being clear. But on that note, what bass are you using, active or passive and how hot is the preamp if it has one?
    When brand new, give it a good couple hours playing at reasonable, levels without pushing too hard. It'll be good from thereon.

    The only dumb questions are the ones not asked.
     
  10. ~Pugz~

    ~Pugz~

    Jul 8, 2005
    I am using a Musicman SUB 4 (passive).

    I like to keep my bass pretty high.
     
  11. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    That could be your problem. Try leaving the EQ a bit more flat.
     
  12. ~Pugz~

    ~Pugz~

    Jul 8, 2005
    Thanks very much for your help so far. It has really cleared up a lot for me so far. If I have any further questions I'll remember to post here.

    Thank you very much. :)
     
  13. origami

    origami

    Jun 26, 2005
    Big D TEXAS
    I too own a GK 1001rb-II head, and I also own 2x 115sbx-II cabs. weirdly enough, I just blew (I think) a speaker too, and I am getting it fixed under warrenty. I file all my receipts, and I did call Gene at GK and he called me back same day. kudos for that! I think I am still waiting for my call from Fender, 2 years later.

    I don't know when it happened, i sometimes play shows with one cabinet and some shows with 2 cabinets, and it is the luck of the draw which one i use for single cabinet nights. i did not discover i had a bad speaker until my band's last acoustic gig, luckily the venue had PA support/DI, or i would of been unable to play the show. Personally, I try not to push it volume-wise/EQ-wise when i use just one cab, so maybe i just got a dud speaker.

    I have had mixed luck with GK cabs. I can say the RBH410 is excellent, the best 410 I ever played. I hated my SBX410, and my sbx115-IIs are pretty good, but tonewise my ampeg SVT 115ev sounds better (i like that it has no horn too), but it cannot handle the wattage my 1001-rb-II puts out as a stand alone. I will say that my GK head sounds great, and has been a much improvement versus my old ampeg 350h in both power and tone.


    many bass companies wont say where they get their speakers, or what exact model they are, but i have heard that GK is using Eminence. I would say the SBX-II has one of the following: http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/speakpro/del15.htm (cast frame-the specs say the speaker is a cast frame) or maybe this one: http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/speakers/del15.htm (pressed/stamped frame)

    If these are what GK are using, Lets hope the service center replaces my cabinet with the delta PRO (cast frame, 80oz magnet)/equivelent not the delta (pressed frame, 56oz. magnet) or equivelent.
     
  14. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    The GK cabs use cast frame speakers, built to spec. Getting a replacement Eminence will not be the same speaker.
     
  15. origami

    origami

    Jun 26, 2005
    Big D TEXAS
    thanks tplyons, i didn't know exactely how GK got their speakers.

    recently GK sold replacement speakers at their website, but has since removed the link.

    mm
     
  16. tplyons

    tplyons

    Apr 6, 2003
    Madison, NJ
    Call them, they should still be available.

    Unfortunately gallien.com is down for the time being and I don't have their contact info on this computer.
     
  17. origami

    origami

    Jun 26, 2005
    Big D TEXAS
    My SBX115-II cabs are still under warrenty. Is the original poster still under warrenty? you might want to check that out.

    After going through a few different rigs of different sizes: SWR, Ampeg, etc.... I came back to GK. i will probably stick with my 1001rb-II for quite a while as my med-large venue head.

    I'd still love to have an Ampeg V4bh and maybe a 412he. There is something to be said about tubes and simplicity of controls. I do wish manufactures would make their heads with an boost/cut 5 band EQ @30Hz-@7kHz and leave well enough alone with all the pre-shaping, tone enhansing aural, shape crap.
     
  18. ~Pugz~

    ~Pugz~

    Jul 8, 2005
    I am pretty sure my warranty is still valid.
     
  19. tadawson

    tadawson

    Aug 24, 2005
    Lewisville, TX
    If you are out of warranty, you might look at getting the driver reconed. Typically, for a good speaker, that is a heck of a lot cheaper than outright replacement, and will take the speaker back to new condition - new voice coil, cone, spider and surround. I know that the shop I deal with in the Dallas area is GK certified to do both warranty and repair on their stuff, so I imagine that a fair amount of others are as well. It's been a while since I needed a recone on anything, but the last I recall it cost me something like $65 to redo an EVM-15B that would have cost me close to $200 to replace . . . . and with factory parts, it is identical to the other one I have that has never been touched . . . .

    On, and regarding power handling, in the PA world, it is very typical to have an amp that can output 2x a cabinets rating. Getting an amp into clipping (overdriving it) will destroy speakers a h**l of a lot faster than running more than rated power if it is clean. I suspect that the guy that really honked your 1001 clipped it so hard that the speaker basically saw a hard square wave (pretty much pure DC) which makes a hell of a lot of heat, and not much decent sound . . . and just plain cooked the voice coil. Now, having said that, depending on how long he played it "to the max" it may just have been a defective driver that was gonna go anyhow. And if it was still sounding good when really loud, almost definitely was a defective driver. Speaker ratings are for continuous power over a pretty long time, so unless he was playing with a bow or some other totally absurd thing, I doubt you overpowered it much, if at all. A 400 watt speaker just doesn't fail instantly at 401 watts (or 460 for that matter . . . )

    - Tim