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Gap in my knowledge...is the problem amp or speakers

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gintaras, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. Gintaras


    Dec 11, 2004
    Kent Island, Md.
    I took out my new rig for the first time last night. It was in a scenario which is probably the loudest that I need to be with 2 loud guitarists and a mic'd drummer. I have a Superfly with (2) Yamaha BBT110s cabs. I was barely loud enough with the volume on 8. The amp is rated at 2x250 and I run a Yamaha 4 ohm cab on each side. I love the tone and flexibility of the amp but was wondering if the issue was just having the (2) 10" speakers. Would I see a increase with switching to 2x10 and a 12 or more efficient speakers.
  2. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    That would make a huge difference....more speakers.2 tens would not cut it in that situation.....get a 15 to add, or a 410
    How powerful is your amp?
  3. 2x 250 watts in a 110 isnt going to be loud enough.

    It isnt a great deal of power or a large amount of speaker area.

    I'd say you'd probably get good results from adding more speaker area.
  4. mr.redpants


    Feb 6, 2002
    a mic'd drummer ? I'd say 10s aren't enough and you need more juice. Unmic the drummer and ask the gui******* to turn down.
    Can you run through the PA?
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    2x250 is plenty of power, if you've got speakers with adequate sensitivity and bandwidth. Apparantly yours don't. I run only one side of my Superfly into an 8 ohm cab and it's more than enough.
  6. Kenny Allyn

    Kenny Allyn

    Mar 25, 2006
    Running two 8ohm 1x10s with a Mark Bass LM II (500 watts @ 4 ohms) has been plenty for me in almost exactly the same situation.

    :eek: ... Actually I've had to turn down in some gigs!
  7. More efficient speakers helps with volume and perceived volume. Also, speaker mass (more speaker surface) will help with the volume issue.

    I run and Eden Rig.

    I rarely have to crack it up over the 10 o'clock position. I have one of the loudest drummers in the industry (imho) and two guitarists that love to play loud.

    The bridged mono 4 ohm load is plenty loud enough. Also, are you utilizing the FOH for your gigs?
  8. Gintaras


    Dec 11, 2004
    Kent Island, Md.
    FOH !?!?!? new term for me but doing a search seems to imply that it has something to do with DI to the PA. If so then I don't but the choice is there and thought to also try that next time. Actually this is probably a good way to go since this is the only place where I am not loud enough. But my GAS consumption likes the idea of looking for some cabs!!!
  9. BillMason

    BillMason Supporting Member

    Mar 6, 2007
    I think it means Front of Hall - I know it means the sound coming from the mains versus the sound on stage.
  10. joegeezer


    Mar 9, 2005
    Northern Wisconsin
    Avatar Club#12 Eden Club Lucky# 13--USA Peavey Club#37 Carvin Club#5
    I also tried a pair of those Yamaha's and ran them even harder with 300 watts each with an Eden WT405. They are bar none, the best sounding, best power handling single ten cabs I ever tried. They are better than the Eden cabs are. However after reading about guys on here giging with two single tens , and then trying it, I can also say, unless your doing a coffe shop jazz 3 piece, it's not enough power. Not for rock and blues, or the drummers I play with, most of the time. Get yourself two single twelves, and you'll be amazed how much louder they are, than the tens. Two twelves or two 15 inch single cabs, is what I have had to go to also. Two tens, just won't make it, in any situation I play in.

    Yes, FOH, is front of hall, or house.
  11. Kenny Allyn

    Kenny Allyn

    Mar 25, 2006

    Must be the speakers then, cause I play in a, blues R&B and classic rock band, with no problems in small to medium venues and in bigger ones with some PA support. Not knowing how loud a band you play with, I have used said rig in situations with a guitarist with a 2x12 50 watt combo and a loud funky drummer to great effect.

    :) ... Speakers vary widely in sensitivity and output also how they are voiced, makes a big difference.
  12. Mcrelly


    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    I couldn't find specs on the 110's, but I'd recommend finding two 4ohm 112 cabs or bigger. look for "speaker sensitivity" or "efficiency" make sure those numbers are high, like above 100db. the lower the numbers, the more watts it takes to make a loud sound. getting a 4ohm cab will maximize your amp output.

    in the meantime don't forget to decrease you bass settings and boost some mids to hear yourself.
  13. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Retired Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Really, with two loud guitarists and a miked drummer, this is the sort of rig you need. Anything less than 600 watts at the amp and a good 410 cabinet, and you'll be swimming upstream. Your current rig is grossly underpowered and your speaker complement isn't going to cut it.
  14. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    FOH means Front Of House ie the house sound system
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    If you do find single cab driver that claims 100dB or higher sensitivity that's midrange response. From 60 to 100Hz, where it counts, no direct radiator single driver cab has 100dB/watt sensitivity. No driver exists capable of delivering that.

    To the OP, the only way to be absolutely sure that a different cab will actually have significantly higher sensitivity is to try one, side by side with what you have. Chances are though you'll have to go to a pair of 2x10s to make a major difference.
  16. What you could do (if possible), send the bass to the FOH (PA), and for your stage volume, stick your cabs on a milk crate or something. Just some way to bring them closer to ear level. Might make all the difference :)
  17. +1
  18. Gintaras


    Dec 11, 2004
    Kent Island, Md.
    1) buy some cabs

    Since I do have (2) 250 watts at 4 ohms that are not brigdeable then I am going to start with the cabs which gives me an excuse to feed my GAS. I have the opportunity to pickup a Schroeder 1010R for an excellent price and plan to do that on thursday. That will be one side of the head. I would love to find a BagEnd 15 but have not seen any 4 ohm models?

    2) di into pa
    I do have a DI on the amp and my BDDI so that is available.

    3) buy a more powerful head.
    GenzBenz Shuttle 600 :hyper:
  19. ggunn


    Aug 30, 2006
    Austin, TX
    500 watts is grossly underpowered? I'll have to disagree; an SVT at a mere 300 watts is plenty to keep up with a couple of shredders, IMO.
  20. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!!

    Feb 10, 2008
    Simple solution: Add more speakers.

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