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GBE 600..

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ErnieD, Dec 15, 2006.


  1. ErnieD

    ErnieD

    Nov 25, 2004
    Atascocita,TX.
    OK, I rarely get the chance to be off stage to hear/see my equipment in action. Last nite I hosted an open mic jam and for a change about 4-5 bassist showed up. I played my Cirrus 6 and my MIM Fender Jazz 4 (stock). These other players had I believe, 69 MIA P-bass, 70's MIA Jazz, all 4 stringers. Had my GBE600 head into my 4x10 SWR Goliath III, 8ohm cab. I'm not a techy so I believe on the preamp side(?)there are FET/TUBE knobs, from left they are gain, gain, volume. I noticed the 2 red clip lites under these knobs flashing as the other guys played and at times staying steady lit for a few seconds as the guy dug in. I was offstage so I noticed this, when I am onstage I am looking down at the amp and you cannot see the clip lites below the knobs. I had all three preamp knobs set at 11 o'clock, the tube button was pushed in, the rest of the knobs across the front were at noon, had the signal shape buttons all pushed in, the last knob on the right, master volume was at about 1 o'clock. So, I know some clip flashing is ok, but when they stay on for more than a blink or so, am I overdriving the pre? Are the older basses compared to my modern basses the cause, they were pushing some air those guys. I dont know if I am clipping that heavily when I play cause again,small stage, I;m righ on top of my rig, cant see the clip lites under the knobs. Should I rethink the knobs settings, ad a second cab to go 4ohms, or is all fine here? I did have the limiter on and the active button off as they used passive basses. The sound was very deep and clean, those older basses have some meat to em. I play with a lite touch and my modern basses did not seem to have the umph of those 60's&70's P & J. I was told my Cirrus sounded good out on the floor, it felt a little thin to me onstage, is that the bloom effect that I miss and the audience gets. So bottom line, is a little more than just a flashing clip lite harmful to my amp or am I OK here.
    thanks for any info.
     
  2. Assuming these were 'input clip lights', you are not only fine, but IMO are running the gain controls at the optimum level... so that the 'clip indicators' come on at the hardest, loudest playing levels (even if they stay on a few seconds), but are off most of the rest of the time. This is the way most amp manufacturers recommend that their amps be run.

    Plus, I'm not familiar with the GB stuff, but running the tube gain a little hot is not a bad thing at all, and will warm up the sound. As long as it sounds clean to you, you should be good to go.

    Finally, if it's just a matter of the input clip lights... it's a small deal to very slightly turn down the input gain and turn up the master.. that will take care of it with no loss of volume at all.

    K

    Edit: Just took a look at the owner's manual for the 600 on the very nice GB site... so, they have separate clip indicators for the FET and Tube section. They also state that each clip indicator is active even if you have the FET only or tube only channel selected. So, that being said, running a tube pre quite hot (most tube pre's don't even have a 'clip indicator', since one of the main points of a tube pre is to push it hard for a little warmth (or more) is no problem. Since FET pre's sound quite nasty when clipped, you probably want to be a little careful there, but again, having the 'clip' indicator come on occasionally when really digging in is a zero issue.
     
  3. ErnieD

    ErnieD

    Nov 25, 2004
    Atascocita,TX.
    Maybe my question was answered way back when. I looked again and I noticed those red lites have O/L letters beneath them. On this amp there is an actual clip lite located at the far right and a green signal lite as well. Now the green signal lite was flashing and I know it does that regularly, the red clip lite was not flashing at all as the rig was being played. I should search but I think I noticed this when I first got this amp. The little red lites with O/L under the preamp knobs are not clip lites, I believe thats what I was told when I inquired of this with Genz-Benz tech site. I think they said they are just signal lites as well. I will do a search now but if anyone knwos this amp and can confirm what I am guesssing, thanks for your reply.
     
  4. No.. the O/L represent input overload (signal 'clip'), the other 'clip' light on the other side of the amp represents power amp overload (never a good thing). Those are totally different things representing different issues (i.e., the OL lights represent input strength that can be easily adjusted with the gain control. The output clip represents the amp being pushed to hard... representing your amp running out of headroom.
     
  5. ErnieD

    ErnieD

    Nov 25, 2004
    Atascocita,TX.
    So now, is that input overload an OK thing? Do I need to lower the gains on that side or is that just the signal from each bass that I cannot control. And again, is this bad for the amp or cab? Thanks Kjung, kinda sad for me, you say you dont really know GB stuff but you seem to know my amp better than me, ouch. Well, I'm learning here on TB. thanks agian.
     
  6. ErnieD

    ErnieD

    Nov 25, 2004
    Atascocita,TX.
    RTFM, thanks for the replies.
     

  7. Ha... I'm just a compulsive geek. Again, input gain 'overload' on the tube side is a zero issue, and many like a slightly overloaded tube tone (i.e., with that clip light coming on quite regularly). For the FET/SS side, you probably want to run it pretty much like you have it... with the input clip light coming on only when you really wump on the lower notes of your E string.

    One way to set this without killing your ears is to turn the master way down, since input gain is not impacted by the output level of the the amp. You can then really dig into your bass on the lowest notes and fine tune what is going one.

    TBer Hasbeen works for GB, and is very responsive and obviously 'in the know' on these very nice amps. If he doesn't show up here, PM him... he will give you the total scoop on this.

    K

    Edit: I have actually played that amp. I have a good buddy who uses GB in a very large, arena touring situation (they have in-ears, but he likes just a little 'live sound' so that he can 'feel the bass' and have some control over his stage sound). I had the pleasure of checking it out after one of their soundchecks (I didn't have access to the knobs to see where it was set, since it was actually under the stage). However, it sounded GREAT... he uses a Lakland J and a 2x12 cab with the 600... very warm and smooth, but yet articulate and clear... my favorite sound!
     
  8. ErnieD

    ErnieD

    Nov 25, 2004
    Atascocita,TX.
    its nice to know your stuff, as we all should at some point. And yes, I know Roger, hasbeen here, when I post about this amp he almost always chimes in and is a big help. Though this time he prolly saw my user name and thought, Oh hell, ernie forgot how to use his amp again, lol. Cause now I recall he did anwer this question for me awhile back. But he has been great, even after 2 yrs of ownership I metioned here that I never got my 2 button footswitch when I bought this amp. He asks for my address and BAM! sends one out in less than a week, what a guy.
    Wow, arena setup huh, amp was under the stage. Man at my gigs I am almost standing on top of my rig, hence have not seen the lites flashing again til last nite. But Roger and now you have put me at ease that my amp is still working well and sounds awesome according to all the bassist that sat in last nite, one guy even hooked up his Upright w/crappy pups and I dialed in a nice tone for him, so I'm good.
    And finally, yeah love the Laklands, I have a 55-01 and really want a DJ5. A TBer and I are emailing about swapping my Cirrus 6 for his 55-02, have not heard from him again, maybe he changed his mind, :eyebrow: hey I can keep my Cirrus, it sounded great last nite. thanks again for the tips man, very cool.
     
  9. ThumbyAche

    ThumbyAche Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 15, 2005
    Pacific NW
    This makes me feel good about the purchase I just made for my son who is now gigging around town (age 15). I got him a GBE 600 and NEOX 212. The cabinet is awesome sounding and he loves it. The GBE 600 Head should be coming today and he is excited. Poor Kid...huh?;)
     
  10. That's one heck of a nice rig!. I don't even want to remember what I was using at 15 (although it did have nice, soft white tuck and roll sparkly covering:D )
     

  11. Your playing situation is similar to mine! This is just an old friend who hit it quite big and is a nice enough guy to not lose sight of his old friends! Fun to 'step into that other side of it' every couple years or so and feel what it must be like to play at that level.
     
  12. Jiggybass

    Jiggybass

    Nov 15, 2005
    Sudbury, Canada
    Ya, it's alright to run the input a little hot. I use the ML200, with an O/L light, you can run the gain really high, nad have the light staying on for a good solid 5-10 seconds with no problem, and IMO, these Genz Benz amps sound just spectacular. And for the 200 watts that it pushes out, it crushes some 600 watt amps out there :)


    Genz all the way
     
  13. ThumbyAche

    ThumbyAche Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 15, 2005
    Pacific NW
    Gave me an idea for a new post..

     
  14. watspan

    watspan

    Nov 25, 2002
    madison, wi
    I sat in for a set at a blues jam last year w/ my rumblefish 4 j/j
    the house amp was a GB 600 into an SWR 2x15 and I thought "oh boy--this will be old school!" I wound up being real dissapointed w/ the tone--very mid-honkish. Probably just the way the eq was set, which I didn't fiddle with-- I was hoping to get a big blooming 15" swell. Not to say its not a good amp, just my one experience in a similar setting as you describe. disclaimer: YMMV!
     
  15. bassman blue

    bassman blue

    Aug 22, 2002
    Bellingham
    kjung answered your queries admirably. the genz stuff keeps amazing me, i still think they're one of the best kept secrets in the bass equipment community. enjoy!
     
  16. I run my GBE 600 with the tube pre gain dimed and the FET off. Then I adjust the output volume. It's the tone I enjoy the most and I have never heard a clipping problem from the cab. OTOH, I play with a light touch. A few weeks ago another basssist was showing me some of his licks and he digs in very vigorously. The cab (an Accugroove Tri 112) started to make horrendous sounds and the clip light on the right side flashed brightly. When we turned the gain down, everything was great again. So, despite the fact that I don't overload the cab with my touch, it can be done. Listen to your cabs and not just watch the lights.
     
  17. yamaha

    yamaha

    Apr 7, 2006
    Montreal
    I've played a GBE600 quite a few times at gigs. My pre-amp settings are pretty close to yours (11 o-clock). The led on the tube side lights up very easely, and the FET side it rarely or never lights up.

    I love Genz. Best head I've tried to date.
     
  18. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    Hello All......Hello Ernie. LOL....no, I haven't been ducking your thread.

    Yes, KJung is correct....your input lights should be coming on. As was posted, this is the way most amp builders (SWR ...Trace etc) recommend setting up your inputs.

    Even our O/L light on the output section will come on long before you hear any clipping.

    I'm glad to see the rig is still working for you. You know where to find me if you need any support.
     
  19. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    thanks for jumping in with the help KJung. You're a great contributor to this community. ...always helpful and informative.
     

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