Gender Bias- Girls in Rock n' Roll

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by simpleplanfreek, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. simpleplanfreek

    simpleplanfreek Guest

    Jan 28, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    What do you all think about this talks about girls in rock and roll and why not to many people can at least name one girl's poorly written, but it brings up and interesting topic, here's the link...

    it seems like girl bands arn't as succesful as all male girls just aren't accepted by today's music industry, is it cuz there arn't enough female role models for girls to look up to in rock n' roll? All there is, is Hilary Duff and Britney spears look-a-like sluts. I'd like to hear everyone's opinion, from what the guys think about so few rock chicks, and if there are any other girls on this message bored besides me...with me being a girl that is very passionate about music, people are always saying you're just doing it for the guys, not true. and when i'm on stage, i think of playing just as good as the guys. but to get any cred, u kinda have to have guys in your band...unfoutunately...jk...that's is my opinion.
  2. Kelly Lee

    Kelly Lee Yeah, I'm a guy! Supporting Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Marana, AZ, USA
    I'm half asleep and I can name two: Kitty and L7(they rock!). Veruca Salt isn't all female but the two guitarist/singer are. I can't remember any others at the moment.
  3. I feel that music shouldn't be limited to gender, if girls want to rock out (or play any music) I say do it!
  4. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central
    The article's crap, I have no clue what it's trying to argue, but some of the comments at the bottom are pretty ignorant.

    I definately feel a gender bias in the industry, be it from industry execs or drunken hecklers at shows. Because of the whole marketing thing, most of the all-female bands are underground.

    I like to think, though, that the average music fan is willing to accept a band based on their music, not whether or not they're hot. People like Sleater-Kinney and Le Tigre both have very strong fanbases and very pro-feminist songs (in the case of Le Tigre, militantly so).

    I don't know if it's really an industry-driven thing, if the MTV-contingent would feel threatened if a bunch of women started playing music that was a thousand times better than anything they'd ever heard. Being that I loathe the mainstream, I'm going to say it is, but that's IMO. Really, like most things in music, all I can say is "Look to the underground". Though we may not have to, Le Tigre and some other groups have signed to major labels, so they'll be getting more support and promotion, which will help (though Le Tigre's new album being crap doesn't help).

    Also, though I'm not a big fan of her music, Avril Lavinge, in general, has presented overall, a pretty positive image for some younger girls. She's independent and very rock-star-ish. She doesn't try to appear in commercials or make her own movies (yet), and even though her music's kind of generic, I guess some young girls just wanted a role model, and the music was a secondary thing.

    Jessica Hopper wrote an article, which was pretty perceptive, about sexism in popular music, from the blues to rock n' roll, and in particularly modern emo music; which is ironic/sad because originally, emo/indie rock was what all the punk girls played when they got tired of being harassed and abused at punk shows. A quote:

    "Emo’s contentious monologue — it’s balled fist Peter Pan mash-note dilemmas — it’s album length letters from pussy-jail — it’s cathedral building in ode to man-pain and Robert-Bly-isms — it’s woman-induced misery has gone from being descriptive to being prescriptive. Emo was just another forum where women were locked in a stasis of outside observation, observing ourselves through the eyes of others.
  5. Justin V

    Justin V

    Dec 27, 2000
    Alameda, CA
    I do notice that there aren't really all that many girls in popular rock bands, but I've seen girls play just as well and often better than their male counterparts. I've played with two female drummers in the past six months. One of them is my band's new drummer and she very pleasantly surprised me with her abilities. It helps that she can also help on the vocal front. The other was probably one of the best drummers I've ever met. The girl made any kit she was playing on sound like thunder. It was like a pretty John Bonham. lol Not to mention the many MANY girls/women I've met at college who I've seen do some really good things on all sorts of instruments. Though I did notice a lack of female musicians during my High School.

    I guess I have seen some sexism from people when it comes to listening to all-female or even female-fronted rock bands. Though there are plently of great ones. You just kinda have to look for 'em in most cases, I guess.
  6. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    I guess snips, snails and puppy dog tails just market better than sugar, spice and everything nice.

    brad cook
  7. Selta


    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
  8. HamOnTheCob

    HamOnTheCob Jacob Moore Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Cambridge, Ohio, USA
    Endorsing Artist for Warwick Basses, Mesa Engineering, Joyo Technology, Dr. J Pedals, and Levy's Leathers
    Look at it this way. For every really good all male band out there, there is probably a thousand that totally suck. There are certainly a lot more male bands than female bands. Proportionally, there are probably as many good all female bands as there are all male bands.
  9. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    HEY!! I dated one of the girls from S-K when I was in high school. S-K is the name of one of the major roads through our town.

  10. I think that one main reason that women aren't part of many rock bands is the same reason that there aren't a lot of women monster-truck drivers or women tractor pullers or women football players (though that last one is changing a bit). To play rock/metal kind of involves a lot of energy and sweat, something that usually is home to the "Y" chromosome. I am not trying to be sexist here, it just seems to me that a lot of women simply don't want to engage in that kind of activity. Obviously, some do, case in point D'arcy or Avril Lavigne. There will always be exceptions, just as there will always be award-winning male needlepoint artists.

    One thing that I cannot stand are femal bands that are started on the premis "I am female, therefore I must try and show the world that I can do things men do. I will therefore form a band." While I do not think that anyone should not try something because of their gender, I do not think that your gender should be the reason you make music. It can be an inspiration FOR your music, or a subject FOR your music, but I don't think that it should be the reason that you play.

    Maybe what I wrote came out wrong. What I'm trying to get across is that I have seen several female acts that left me with the feeling that they were saying "Because you are I guy I have to play better than you." It kind of came across as sexism. They weren't playing to make music, they were playing to draw a negative reaction then use that to justify demeaning the male population. And that I don't agree with.

    Now, in no way am I saying or condoning that women shouldn't be in rock music. I have no qualms with listening too or playing with female musicians. I happen to like The Donnas a lot, and think their music is pretty good. If more female bands pop up on the scene, so much the better. And I think that the female musician has found more acceptance in the realms of country/folk/bluegrass than in rock the rock genre. While it can be difficult to name good female rock bands, when you think of country you get The Judds, Faith Hill, Dolly Parton, The Dixie Chicks, and various other huge names in the music industry. I can't begin to tell you why country like the female musician more than rock (maybe it has to do with appearance and vocal sound? Slipknot would sound kinda funny sung by June Carter Cas:D) but they seem to have found not only an accepted outlet for their music, but a large one at that.

    Okay, I've probably insulted someone here, and I apologize for that. I am not trying to degrade ANYONE, male for female. Writing things online has it's drawbacks.::shrugs::

    Rock on
  11. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central

    I think the reason they make a big deal out of it is because a lot of female bands get treated as novelties, "Oh, that's cute, girls with guitars, now lets move on to the rock". So they feel they have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously. It's also a big FU at all the bastards that have dismissed them. It's not as if they are trying to make a big deal out of being feminine just because, it's a reaction against something.

    [As opposed to a lot of all-male bands who think that that fact that they have a whooty whoo is the grandest idea ever.]
  12. I'm a sucker for a good girl rock band.

    My latest favorite girl fronted rock band- Half Cocked. Yes, it's 2 girls and 2 guys.
  13. This is more of what I was trying to say. Several of the female acts that I have seen have skipped over trying to be taken seriosuly and are simply out for the FU. Not just those that didn't give them the chance, but anyone who has even ever had a passing THOUGHT of women not being quite up to snuff over some subject (and please, let's not get into that. There are somethings that are going to be the realm of guys till the end of time, simply because of things like physical structure and genetics)

    Again, I'm not saying that girl bands are bad. I'm saying girl bands formed for the wrong reasons are bad. Just as guy bands formed for the wrong reasons are bad.

    Rock on
  14. Joey3313


    Nov 28, 2003
    IMO- best bands- guys
    best solo artists- girls.

    Common, everyone here likes at least one Alanis Morrisette, or Sarah Mclachlan, or Jewel song (before she got all poppy/dirty/hot)...or is this just me?

    Oh, and Ani Difranco...although she kinda scares me.
  15. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central

    I have a huge amount of respect for Ani DiFranco for being totally independent and releasing some killer artists; Utah Phillips is hot sheezy.

    However, I'm not a big fan of her music.
  16. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    There are plenty of great female artists outside of rock but I think a big part of the reason that there aren't that many in rock is that rock has a certain edgy, aggressiveness that is born of competitiveness and a bit of testosterone and just isn't that inherent to females.

    brad cook
  17. "Sexism", to me, is just another mental barrier we put between ourselves as humans. It seems some people want to take it to a new, and sometimes, bitter level for whatever reason. There's nothing wrong with trying to acquire some equality in some areas but it ****s me is when people put a whole gender in a little box and narrow their thinking. We need to stop this. In the end does it matter if a male or female makes music that sounds good?
  18. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central

    I don't think so. I haven't seen a female rock band show any lack of aggression when up on stage, I suppose I've been privileaged with rarely seeing sucky bands, but I think proportionally, the level of edgy-ness and aggression (testoserone-fueled or not) is about the same for both women and men bands.

    I think its just an issue of people and the girls themselves, not giving female groups a chance. I know sometimes people see an all-female group get up on stage and they immediately think it's a novelty and don't take it seriously; with most guy groups they'd probably wait for the first song, but with girl groups they immediately dismiss them.
  19. lneal


    Apr 12, 2002
    Lee County, Alabama
    Britny Fox.