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Getting a custom 410 made, speaker question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Figjam, May 18, 2019.

  1. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Hey all

    I am having a custom 410 made by a small builder near me. Sort of a modern construction, fingerjointed, wood stained beauty. Maybe an oxblood stain with black grill cloth. Will post photos when its done.

    For the speakers, I chose a cheap set just to get it up and running, since cashflow is tight right now. Then I can do some thinking and upgrade later.

    The set I chose for now is this: Case of Four 10" Bass Speakers. SLM Electronics (Crate) Unused Old Stock

    Essentially NOS Crate speakers.

    This cab will be used for guitar as well as bass, and 90% of the time it will be with a tube amp thats no greater than 140 watts. The speakers I linked to are not super high wattage, but they will work for now. The cab will mostly be used for rehearsals, recording. Maybe one gig a year. I dont play out much at the moment due to my work schedule.

    Questions: What are your favorite cheap 10" drivers? Did SLM era Ampeg stuff ever get these chinese SLM speakers? Is there anywhere to buy the speakers that Ampeg uses in the 210av?

  2. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Any additional info you can give about the cab? Dimensions, internal volume, ports, tuning, etc.?
    AudioTaper likes this.
  3. Low Class

    Low Class Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Orange Park, Florida
    You should know what speakers you are using so the cab is tuned to them. If your cab builder doesn't know that you should rethink this.
    dbsfgyd1, mcnach, miljoneir and 23 others like this.
  4. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    The dimensions havent been locked in yet, but it will be slightly oversized. Probably 2 inches deeper than an Ampeg 810. Ported but Im not sure yet what type of port.
  5. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Thats a solid point. The builder is definitely not on that level in terms of engineering.
    Coolhandjjl and Rick James like this.
  6. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Think about building from a published design.
  7. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Ill suggest that to him.
  8. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    I would guess those drivers might handle 15 watts tops before farting out, and probably don't go anywhere near as low as a good driver will. They might have seemed a bargain, but one good ten would probably work at least as well, if not better, than all four of those, and the cab would be 1/4 the size of your proposed 410.
    For sure. He might be the world's best carpenter, but no speaker builder worthy of the name would ever build a speaker using drivers where the Thiele/Small specs were not known and the cabinet design had not been created using speaker modeling software.
    Jeff Scott, smogg, AudioTaper and 2 others like this.
  9. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I agree with all of your points. This is more of an experiment than anything else.The cab will be primarily used for guitar, so it doubling as a bass cab is sort of an after thought. I will probably go with an X pattern of speakers and make my future speaker decisions based on how the cab ends up sounding and sort of adjust retroactively . I know this process sort of infuriates some of you, sorry! Its really a fun project to mess around with than an exact science. I do have a science degree, so I know what you are all saying. Keep the suggestions coming, Im listening.
  10. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Learn the science of speakers. There's a full century of highly documented experience to take advantage of, so it would be silly to start from scratch on your own.
    Ekulati, smogg, Coolhandjjl and 2 others like this.
  11. MIMike


    Jan 1, 2013
    West MI
    In general this sounds like a bad idea to me.
    At best you will have a 50/50 chance of something that sounds good...probably less than that with the speakers you have lined up now.
    smogg and DiabolusInMusic like this.
  12. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    A bass cab, especially a ported one, must be built around or in-conjunction with the speakers. There's a lot of interaction there. Can't just build a box with a hole in it and plop some speakers in and expect it to sound or perform as intended.
    Ekulati, smogg, Ewo and 1 other person like this.
  13. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Seeing as it will be used for guitar a lot, and that the speaker choice longterm is unknown, would non ported be safer?
  14. CyberSnyder

    CyberSnyder Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    I Endorse Alien Audio Basses
    Without starting from well-established science and proper planning, you’re building a box that holds speakers. The odds of success are slim.
  15. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    One option is to conduct two projects in parallel: 2) Build the guitar cab for fun, with realistic expectations of its use as a bass cab. 1) Study the science behind speaker design just for fun as well. Here's my own write-up, possibly sub-titled: "Speaker theory for those who never intend to design a speaker."

    DrZ, smogg, wave rider and 3 others like this.
  16. There's a difference between a builder and a designer. I've built generic boxes for people, usually from proven designs, but left it to the end-user to adjust the ports to the drivers used. I do what I can to inform them of what the options are, but beyond that, I don't really consider it part of the builder's job.

    The principles of bass reflex enclosure design aren't particularly complicated or difficult to master, and all the info is pretty accessible...probably no need to go back through a hundred years of research documentation.
    pie_man_25 likes this.
  17. thetragichero


    Jan 4, 2019
    if you are paying more than just the materials cost then this is a terrible idea, just buy a used box off craigslist

    if, on the other hand, this is just two friends having some fun making a cabinet then do it up! I've got some spare 15" speakers myself that I'm going to build a box for to play guitar through a solid state pa i cascaded the channels for big loud angry distortion. will attempt to use as much scrap as possible. up the punx!
    Bass Jones and DiabolusInMusic like this.
  18. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Its somewhere inbetween the two scenarios. Its a fun project not meant to be an exact science, but science is taken into account because I want it to be a learning experience. I think since it will likely be used primarily for guitar,and then some quiet bass practice that it doesnt have to be super engineered as a high volume bass cab. In fact that would possibly make it useless as a guitar cab.But I am open to opinions.

    Id like to steer the thread back more towards peoples preferences for decently priced 10" speakers, if possible.
  19. DiabolusInMusic

    DiabolusInMusic Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism Supporting Member

    Money is tight = bad time for an experiment.

    It is your money but this is a huge gamble that will cost more than any used production cab and will have a completely unpredictable sound. I would not recommend moving forward as is.
    nilorius, DrZ, smogg and 4 others like this.
  20. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    My preferences are for a speaker and a box that are designed to work well together.
    DJ Bebop, smogg, FRoss6788 and 6 others like this.

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