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Getting a custom 410 made, speaker question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Figjam, May 18, 2019.


  1. arbiterusa

    arbiterusa

    Sep 24, 2015
    San Diego, CA
    OP: if you're building this mostly for guitar, just have your guy build an open-back cabinet. It won't be a good bass cabinet but will work just fine at lower volumes. And then the size of the thing doesn't matter and you can get on with your life.

    For an open back guitar cab using 10s I prefer Jensen speakers, but those are pricey. The ones you posted will work just fine.
     
  2. Low Class

    Low Class Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Orange Park, Florida
    Gasaholic
    Years ago I did similar "experiments ". They all turned out to be a waste of time and money.
     
    scowboy likes this.
  3. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    MCM 55-2951
    Might be dark for guitar. They want to be in a tuned cab, near Fs.

    Decent start for a diy bass cab driver without breaking the bank.

    Look at 3.5 to 4.5 cuft
    Series/parallel for 8 ohm in your quad cab.

    Agreed, not looking like a great idea, but sometimes there is no turning off the "build bug".
     
    pie_man_25 and gitfiddl like this.
  4. Eddie LeBlanc

    Eddie LeBlanc

    Oct 26, 2014
    Beaumont, Texas
    None
    Look into B&C Neo drivers. The Cab needs to be ported. Great frequency response, and higher sensitivity (SPL) rating than many.

    But these can be installed and connected series and then parallel, to give an 8 ohm cabinet load, rated for 800 watts easily.

    B&C Speakers
     
  5. singlemalt

    singlemalt Supporting Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    White Salmon, WA
    Kind of a chicken and egg question. That’s why everybody keeps asking for more info.

    If it’s all about the finger joint construction, stain color and grill clothe, make the whole baffle removable so you can experiment away with cheap drivers.

    What’s the total budget for this project? Is the goal a visual or sound?

    Parts Express and Speaker Hardware are good sources for everything speaker building.

    Maybe look at Greenboy’s fEarful plans. There are plenty of proven designs for free or cheap that will yield a great sounding cab. You can always adjust the carcass construction to suit your visual goals.

    Most guys start building with a version of this idea: “Got this (empty cab, free driver or drivers) some tools and paint. I’m going to build a cab! How hard can it be?” Ask me how I know. And we take our lumps and lessons learned.

    Since it sounds like you have neither cab nor drivers yet, but cash is tight, start with a good plan.

    DIY can be very rewarding, but rarely saves money over a decent used cab. I get it, I like building cabs, and other stuff. I’ve got tools, space and time. When I get the build itch, I build a fEarful.
     
  6. I filled a DIY 8x10 fridge (built by one of the other band dads) for my son's high school metal band with them (or their MCM predecessor) and used them to replace blown tens in little monitors, etc. Pretty decent and robust speaker for the money. I've been lucky over the years with all my "low budget random speaker in a random box" creations in that most have worked out reasonably well. That said, if I was going to pay someone with real cabinetry skills to build a nice cabinet for me, I'd do the proper math (or have someone do it for me) and make sure that the chosen drivers were going to perform well in the cabinet.
     
    Joedog likes this.
  7. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Guitar cabinets and bass cabinets are designed with different goals in mind. It is rare to find one that can do both, and next to impossible on a budget. Learn to build one, then learn what is different and build the other.
     
    Ekulati likes this.
  8. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    If you want it for dual duty, there are plans for what is known as FRFR cabs. Full Range Flat Response. Whether or not it has a port is up to your tonal goals. Whether it sounds good for guitar, is subject for debate. In the guitar world, as you already know, the amp/speaker are like their own separate instrument, and usually won't be suitable for bass, and vice-versa.

    Use a published design, or consult with one of the many engineers and designers here. Otherwise, you'll be wasting time and money. (Even if you have an abundance of both, start with what works)

    But I would abandon this idea. Do you, as a guitarist, really want to schlep around a 410? Even bassists are fleeing from that drudgery in droves.
     
  9. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    My suggestion: As you seem to be committed to doing something, what I suggest is:

    1) Go on the Eminence website, and pick out a 10" bass guitar speaker with a decent amount of xmax - say 6 mm or more - one that they recommend for a 410 enclosure. On the page for that driver, they usually have a suggested design - cabinet volume (internal, not including the wood). Build a box that size, and follow the port dimensions as well. That way, when you decide you've made a mistake using random speakers, you'll have a box that, with a speaker swap, is usable.
     
    Redbrangus likes this.
  10. aprod

    aprod

    Mar 11, 2008
    There are so many great cabs available commercially. Why experiment with an inexperienced cab maker?
     
    DJ Bebop, agedhorse and 40Hz like this.
  11. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    You’re putting the cart before the horse.

    The wise thing to do us pick the speakers you want to use and then design the cab to work with the speakers rather than the other way around. The cab dimensions and type (sealed, ported, etc) are just as much a part of the sonic equation as the speakers are. It’s not just a box to put any old speakers in.

    Cab design is part art and part science. If your builder isn’t an experienced cab designer you’d best use whatever cab plans that the speaker manufacturer recommends or copy an existing commercial cab that uses the same speakers.
     
    pie_man_25 likes this.
  12. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    ^This.

    Or just purchase a flatpack for a Greenboy and have someone assemble it for you if you’re not up to the task.
     
    DJ Bebop and TakeABreak like this.
  13. Sealed speaker cabs are pretty straightforward to design and build, if you find the right driver, have the T&S specs and are ok without the really low end. Especially if you don't need high sound volume.
     
  14. Start with the speaker you want. I am not sure you will find a cab that will serve both guitar and bass equally well , perhaps a full range design would suit you.
     
  15. Spun__Kee

    Spun__Kee Banned

    Apr 17, 2019
    This isn't going to end well.
     
  16. Keep the faith! My biggest worry is that the speakers the OP has purchased aren't going to cut it for bass use any louder than bedroom practice volume.
     

  17. You’re missing the point of what we’ve been trying to tell you. The design of the box is dependant on the TS parameters of the selected driver. Why would you want to use crap/cheap drivers when you could end up with a really good sounding cabinet. If the construction/finish of this cabinet is as good as you hope you should select drivers of a similar quality.
     
  18. I'm going to say a few things for OP right now: lots of people here, like me, are bassists first and not engineers at all. @agedhorse is an engineer and has done a lot of good work. I'm not even %100 sure he plays bass, but I suppose why else would be be here? That said, he knows what he's talking about, and when he references stuff, I'm taking notes and get to reading on my own time. Lots of other people are more passionate dilettantes (like myself), take that stuff with a grain of salt.

    This said, guitar speakers and bass speakers tend to have different goals in mind. An electric guitar speaker tends to deal with being put into a tight sealed airspace, or open airspace, in numbers of 2-4, and given about 50-100 Watts, at least based on looking at the amp, not even necessarily what it's actually putting out. Those watts are also reflecting an instrument that usually bottoms out at 80hz, whose signal is distorted enough to add more higher-end content than that bottom end number might suggest. These speakers, then, aren't made for a lot of real, clean, power handling with high fidelity to the original signal, they're made to take a coloured sound and colour it even more to sound good at a certain volume. A bass guitar speaker, at least a modern high quality one, will be designed to work in a much larger airspace, either sealed or with a tuned port to help with low end volume, in order to handle a lower frequency signal with much more clean power handling. This exact airspace needed can vary greatly from speaker to speaker, as well. Learning this fact won't take years of engineering experience, and learning how to design good speaker cabinets using this information won't take rocket science either. This being said, even with my basic understanding, I can say one thing - a good guitar cab and good bass cab are designed with different goals in mind, and making one to try and suit both will end up with a box that's kinda mediocre at either, and issuing a box well designed for one will make a poor box for the other. I'd honestly recommend that of the cab will be primarily for guitar, just make it for guitar and see how loud it'll actually go without audible suffering on bass before playing out with it, and keep realistic expectations as to its limitations.

    Case in point - about November 2017 I built a 112 for use in a folk punk project. I only used it with a valve Junior, and played in a coffeehouse with an acoustic guitar with natural overdrive from the amp. I also used it with a buddy's shortscale to record demos in a room the size of a shoebox with a roommate whose bed was three feet or so from mine. The speaker didn't blow up or even audibly have any difficulty, but I wouldn't trust it with any real volume or power - a valve Junior probably doesn't realistically hit its advertised 5 Watts. But then again, my entire job consists of assessing factors within a situation to make calculated risks with assessments of tradeoffs. Risking a $20 speaker with a 5 Watt amp to get loud enough for a microphone seemed like good odds to me. Risking 4 speakers in a cabinet that'll probably run you around $400 without the speakers if you're paying a woodworker, with a 140 Watt head to get loud enough for... Band practice, a bar gig? If I'm risking that I'd probably take some pause.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    instrumentalist and gitfiddl like this.
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Actually, I don't play bass. I'm a keyboard player
     
  20. Get a rope!
    :D
     

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