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Getting a custom 410 made, speaker question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Figjam, May 18, 2019.

  1. Kinda beside the real point, but it's always good to know :)
    agedhorse likes this.
  2. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    You can play bass with decent enough results through just about any guitar cab these days if you watch your levels and listen for any stressing from the speaker. With all the downtuning going on, amp companies are well aware that lower frequencies can be expected to be the norm for some guitarists. So lows aren’t so much an issue as they used to be with guitar cabs back in the 70s. Today’s speakers are head and shoulders above what used to be available.

    Ok. My answer is none - or any. Most decent quality speakers come in around the same price range. And no name cheapies aren’t that much less. A quality 10” like an Eminence runs a very reasonable $99 new. A similar speaker from Weber runs about the same. I’d hesitate to go anywhere below that. If you do decide to get something cheaper with the goal of one day upgrading, then at least make sure the cab is designed to work optimally with what you’ll one day put in it.

    If you do decide go the “design” your own route I’d strongly suggest investing some money in some cabinet design software - or download the speaker manufacturer’s plans for whatever speakers you ultimately plan to use. Many speaker manufacturers can provide “known good” enclosure plans optimized to match their products either for free or a nominal charge.
  3. So you play bass with just your left hand...
    pie_man_25 and agedhorse like this.
  4. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Actually, I let the bass player play bass and stay out of his way ;)
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  5. Ekulati

    Ekulati Supporting Member

    Jan 2, 2016
    Richmond, VA
    So the look of the cab, especially a natural wood one, is more important than how it sounds? I'm guessing you play in a jam band.

    PS: if so, no grill cloth. You need the drivers bare. Preferably with shiny caps.
  6. bherman

    bherman Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    Grand Junction, CO
    My suggestion - find a proven design that will work with decent speakers (others have noted references above). Give the plans to your builder and ask him to follow the dimensions, port locations, etc but build it with materials that will give you the look that you want (jointed corners, furniture-grade veneer for staining etc). What you want (nice looking cab) and the advice many are giving you (use a proven design) are not mutually exclusive.
    pie_man_25 likes this.
  7. alaskaleftybass

    alaskaleftybass Will Hanbury, Jr. Supporting Member

    Mar 21, 2012
    Sitka, Alaska
    What is your top dollar for the 4x10 speakers?
    Given that it's mostly for guitar, use a sealed cab design. To get a bit more pseudo-scientific, go to Sweetwater and find the dimensions of the Ampeg SEALED bass cabinets. I say sealed because ported will allow for a good chance to blow the speakers.

    Another interesting thought-- you mentioned the Ampeg SVT micro 210's. Instead of 'homebrewing' something could go entirely wrong, why not start with one SVT 210. They're pretty cheap and you know that they're correctly designed and will also work for a guitar cab. You could start with one, and add a second later instead of wasting the money on 4 more 10's then disposing of the existing 10's. No need to add to landfill.
    pie_man_25 likes this.
  8. Those Ampeg 210s that go with their micro SVT amps are actually pretty darn good at guitar too.
    alaskaleftybass likes this.
  9. alaskaleftybass

    alaskaleftybass Will Hanbury, Jr. Supporting Member

    Mar 21, 2012
    Sitka, Alaska
    Thanks @pie_man_25 .
    I forgot to mention-- if you really are bent on your experiment, please don't buy old technology Crate speakers! Speaker technology has come so far since then. They might initially seem like a bargain-- but they will leave you wanting more from the beginning.
    S-Bigbottom and agedhorse like this.
  10. jazzbass_5


    Sep 1, 2007
    NY, Albion
    Firstly, good luck with your cab build!
    Second, everyone here has very valid points about speaker parameters being matched to the cabinet so I won't even go there.
    Anyway, to answer your question about inexpensive speakers I prefer?
    Dayton Pro series 10s.
    Inexpensive and worked fabulously in the 6x10 cabinet I installed them in (after extensive research) and they sound great.
    alaskaleftybass likes this.
  11. alaskaleftybass

    alaskaleftybass Will Hanbury, Jr. Supporting Member

    Mar 21, 2012
    Sitka, Alaska
    How did you get the parameters for the cab? I've had a fetish for single tens nowadays stacked in twos. Two Dayton's sounds good to me...
    jazzbass_5 likes this.
  12. nomaj


    Apr 2, 2012
    Absolutely. The choice of speakers should depend on the dimensions of the cab and the port size, or vice versa.
  13. jazzbass_5


    Sep 1, 2007
    NY, Albion
    Measured the internal measurements of the cabinet, length x width x depth gave me the volume.
    (Was a 1975 Peavey 6x10 cab I retrofitted)
    alaskaleftybass likes this.
  14. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Thiele/Small parameters and speaker response modeling weren't used in electric bass cab designs in 1975.
  15. Ampslut


    May 15, 2017
    What you are thinking about doing is a total crap shoot.
    Buy 2 of these flat packs and the recommended drivers and you can build a pr of 2x10 that will work. You won't save any money but you will have something usable.

    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  16. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Sounds to me like you are wasting money. Cabs refineries the specific driver. You can't just mix and try to match.
  17. jazzbass_5


    Sep 1, 2007
    NY, Albion
    Sounds great with the new speakers, I essentially figured out the internal volume of the cabinet and then looked for speakers that would match.
  18. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    I'd just like to mention... it may seem like you poked a hornet's nest here. But to offer a consolation... the reason why it seems like a hornet's nest on the Internet, is because it is one in real life. Bass speaker design is a balance of tradeoffs where all of the "good" factors work against one another: Size, loudness, low end response, even cost. On the other hand, it's also what makes bass speaker design so fascinating.

    I like controversial problems when they are controversial because the underlying reality is interesting and difficult. ;)
    instrumentalist likes this.
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Yup, and there were some amazing failures, terrible sounding cabinets, and a lot of blown drivers too (even with low powered amps)

    Of course the real engineers and designers, even back then, plotted the response, the impedance curve and fit those curves to filter math and adjusted the cabinets to fit the desired F3, F10 and Q by knowing what the effects of increasing/decreasing port area, port depth, cabinet internal volume, etc. The shape of the curve lends valuable insight if you know what you are looking for and understand electrical filter math. The impedance curve also provides valuable information relating to Q.
  20. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    That's what Enzo Ferrari said when he saw that the Brits were beginning to put the engine behind the driver in F1 cars. ;)

    But, that has nothing to do with the experiment that the OP is about to commit to. Or, does it? :D

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