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Gigged my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 Friday...hmmm.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jaycephas, Apr 26, 2009.


  1. Jaycephas

    Jaycephas Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2003
    Waxhaw, NC
    Okay, so the band was playing a backyard gig for a friend and I brought my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 instead of my Alembic F-1X/QSC combo through an Eden D210XLT. Brought the Fender P5 cause my keyboard player really digs it.

    So all is going well in tune up/warm up, but when we start playing and I dig in on the B-string, I hear a noticeable drop in the output. I then went on a tweak session for several songs; however, I still felt that the B-string was noticeably weaker. I feel confident in my setup of the bass, so I feel that something else was "squashing" the B-string tone.

    Okay, so today, I am running my Sadowsky RV5 into the GB Shuttle through two D210XLTs at church and get the same issue...B-string "squash". BTW, I don't use any compression on live gigs.

    I start to work the problem and I feel that it may be this...the GB shuttle has no pad switch to reduce/increase output into the preamp. It is automatic per the manual. So the signal level at input is out of my control. I like tube warmth on my amp but rarely go for an overdriven sound, so I also feel that maybe I am getting some tube compression that is squashing the output of the B-string.

    Has anyone else run into this output "squash" with the Genz Benz Shuttle? Maybe I am running the gain too high (2 o'clock - gain volume 2 o'clock)?

    J
     
  2. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Try lowering the gain and raising the master.
     
  3. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    we actually strive to have less "squash" or hard limiter .....much less. We want our amp to be the punchiest and most dynamic available.

    Like Tallboy said, you are running the pre and the gain quite high. This is going to bring in lots of tube compression.

    Can you tell me what kind of bass you're using and also, where all your eq settings are, in the o'clock format? Are you also using the signal shaping circuit?
     
  4. Jaycephas

    Jaycephas Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2003
    Waxhaw, NC
    Hey,

    Actually, I was using a setting recommended by you (or another GB guy) I believe.

    Punchy, Clean Sound
    Input gain at 2 o'clock
    Input vol at 1 o'clock
    Lows at 2 o'clock
    Mids at 2 o'clock
    Mid Freq at 8-9 o'clock
    Highs flat at 12 noon
    Global filters off.
     
  5. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Input gain totally depends on how hot your bass is. Is the red light coming on when you really hit it hard?
     
  6. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The input O/L LED is there to inform you when you are digging into the rtube and getting tube overdrive. This is desireable for some and not for others but the LED tells you where in the range you are operating.

    By any chance have you checked the battery in your bass? Also, nothing chenged in your bass set-up did it?
     
  7. Jaycephas

    Jaycephas Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2003
    Waxhaw, NC
    Yes. With the Fender P5, I set the O/L to just flash when I hit the B-string notes hard. Maybe I need to turn the gain down even more.

    The same with the Sadowsky, although I had to turn the gain way down as the Sadowsky pre is very hot.
     
  8. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    those are my typical recommended settings. I think you just have the gain/input too high. Where are you eq'ing the pre on your instrument? The Fender, Lakland and Sad have very different pres.
     
  9. Jaycephas

    Jaycephas Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2003
    Waxhaw, NC
    Fender P5 is passive, so straight in. Lakland I do boost the B/T, but maybe +2 each. Sadowsky I boost about the same, but roll off the treble with the vintage tone control.

    As originally thought the culprit is likely me setting the gain too high. I am more of a clean sound guy with tube warmth rather than grit, so that may work. What I notice is that with the gain/level high, I can not turn the master volume past about 3 without blowing people away.
     
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Ok, try turning the master up to 12:00 and turn the gain and volume down to say 12:00 each to start. Then you may want to turn the gain down a little more to taste.
     
  11. Brado

    Brado

    Oct 19, 2005
    Buda, TX.
    Try using the QSC/ Alembic F-1X. if it sounds better, gig with it. You can always use the Shuttle for rehearsals & what not.....I've recently owned a Shuttle 6.0 (just over a year). Good sounding little head. I've actually owned a QSC/Alembic F-X1 in the past; I don't see how the Shuttle can come close to sounding as nice as that. Don't get me wrong; It's a good little bass head....it just can't replace the sound quality of other pre's & power amps out there....
     
  12. I'm picking one of these Shuttles up this week. Can you bypass the tube? I've never ben a big tube guy.
     
  13. There are other options in the Shuttle line - the 6.0 likely isn't for you. I'd go with either the 3.0 or one of the MAX offerings.
     
  14. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    You can't bypass it but, don't think of it has a "tube sound" device in the common sense. The most is should do is add some compression at higher settings.

    It can be dialed out though......to a great extent.
     
  15. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    If you do not drive the tube hard, you will find the effects quite subtle. That's why there is a gain and volume know on the preamp section. Run with the preamp volume around 2:00-3:00, the master around 12:00-1:00 and the input gain control will end up being low enough that the preamp will act more like a recording tube (mic) pre. Note that the exact positions of the knobs will depend on the output level of your bass, and the volume you need.
     
  16. sk8

    sk8

    May 10, 2007
    United Kingdom
    the FET pre in the 3.0 is great. I had a 6.0 but didn't get on with the tube pre. if i need more power the 6.0 MAX is where i'm going to try first
     
  17. brandtb

    brandtb

    Aug 27, 2008
    Raleigh, NC
    I played a 6.0 Max last week. It was sweet. I loved being able to get the best of the Shuttles 3.0 and 6.0 tone-wise and then on top of that being able to combine the tones.

    I'm going to hopefully go and buy my ShuttleMax 6.0 tonight! Do ya think I'm maybe a little excited?
     
  18. Jaycephas

    Jaycephas Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2003
    Waxhaw, NC
    Thanks for all the feedback. I made the adjustments and voila! No more "squash" (although, I do love squash with onions).

    I have to say that this is a great amp. The weight, power and tone are tops. Thanks Genz Benz guys!
     
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Cool, it's nice to fix and easy "problem" every now and then.

    I'm not a squash fan myself ;)
     
  20. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Yay!!! :hyper:
     

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