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GK MB210 + Crate cab help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by maniac mikej, Jun 7, 2011.


  1. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    My friend is selling me a crate cab, it's either a BE1810 or a BC1810 (not a clue what the difference is). From what I've found online it says that it is a 4 ohm cab. GK says if I'm running a cab off that amp it needs to be 8 ohms. I'm guessing the cab is an 8 ohm 18" and the 10s are wired up to be 8, then put in parallel with the 18 to give you 4 ohms total. Is there any way I can easily rewire it to run at 16? Would that harm my amp? Wouls I be able to wire it up so that my amp sees a 4x10 and a 1x18? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. philter25

    philter25

    Mar 26, 2010
    Germantown, MD
    I would not recommend connecting that cabinet to your combo.

    Your MB210 combo is an 8 ohm load. The amp in that combo can hold a 4 ohm load. Connecting another 8 ohm cabinet to your combo will be a 4 ohm load.

    Connecting a 4 ohm cabinet to your combo will be a 2.6667 ohm load and is not recommended for that amp.

    Connecting a 16 ohm cabinet to your combo will be a 5.33 ohm load, which technically is ok.

    You do not want to connect less than a 4 ohm total load to your combo, so do not connect anything under an 8 ohm cabinet.

    An 8 ohm extension cabinet will be ideal.

    I was not able to find any information on a BE1810 or BC1810 on the crate website so I cant comment on re-wiring. Also, Im guessing those cabs are crossed over for low frequencies to go to the 18 speaker and higher ones to go to the 10 speaker and have an internal crossover along with full range or bi-amp capabilities. If so, that seems like a lot of work to redesign something rather than purchase something which was designed to work in the first place.

    IMO, Id be saving up for a matching 8 ohm MBE210 cabinet or 8 ohm MBE115 cabinet, or looking for a used one to save money.
     
  3. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    well those cabs came out in the late 80s I believe, so they wouldnt be on their site. what im thinking of doing ir rewiring it so i can just go into the 18, and/or rewire the 10s to combine with the 10s on my existing combo to run at 8 as well. eventually i'll either get a different head, or re-speaker this cab, or both. just looking to get the most use out of what i have atm.
     
  4. I used to have one of those cabs. It was a single 18 with a 2X10 in the same cab.

    However, there was a crossover built into it for running full range. That means the 18 was 4 ohms, and the 2X10's were 4 ohms.

    Don't think your going to be able to use that cab at all.
     
  5. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    I know this may go against the talkbass forum code of conduct, the bassists union bylaws, and the Geneva convention, but if i ripped out the crossover and wired the 2x10 and 1x18 section in series to get 8 ohms, I could then use it. I'm still unsure as to what exactly a crossover does. So could I do that in the meantime until I get better speakers that would run at 8 with a crossover? or when I get a new head I could put the crossover back in. Also I understand how crappy Crate is, but for $100 how could I go wrong?
     
  6. philter25

    philter25

    Mar 26, 2010
    Germantown, MD
    A crossover can essentially divide your signal into different groups allowing different speakers to get different frequencies. For example, on 3 way cabs, you have your low frequencies going to your big 15" speaker, then you have you mid frequencies going to your mid driver, and then your high frequencies going to your tweeter.

    I do a search on here for phase issues, crossovers, and wiring. If you dont know what a crossover does, you should probably read up on one before you decide if pulling it out and re-wiring your cabinet is a good idea.

    For 100 bucks, you CAN go wrong if you care about tone. Even though crate is crappy, theres a reason crate selected those speakers and put in a crossover. Theres a reason that they probably only want frequencies under a certain number going to the 18" speaker and higher frequencies going to the 10" speaker. Those speakers werent probably designed for full range and might sound like crap.

    If you re-wire the cab yourself, remove the crossover, and connect it to your MB210, each speaker will be getting the full range of tones. I dont think that 18" speaker is going to pop and sizzle when you play some slap and get a good pluck on your G string.

    Again, if the cabinet is only 100 bucks, I get the feeling if you go down the route that you are trying to, you probably would have been better off just saving your money and getting a smaller 8 ohm cabinet to plug into your MB210.

    If you are really looking for the cheapest possible way, Id try to pick up a used 8 ohm extension cabinet which wouldnt require you to re-wire.

    You have a very nice 210 combo which produces some good tone. I dont know why you would want to waste that tone to save a few bucks for a frankenstein project just to get something that might work. In the end, you are going to probably end up spending more money than you would have if you just bought a good match in the first place.
     
  7. If you take out the crossover, then all the speakers will be running full range.

    If I remember correctly, those 10's were really weak, and probably not up to running full range. The only way you will know is to try it.

    A crossover seperates the frequecies at a pre-determined point, and sends the lows to the 18 and the highs to the 10's.

    If you tried to re-load the cab with speakers to run @ 8 ohms, you would have to get a new crossover as the one in the cab is designed to work @ 4 ohms.

    Additionally, getting a new 18 and a couple of new 10's would cost you hundreds of dollars, plus the cost of a new crossover, and new input jackplate (the Crate has a circuit board attached to the input plate and will have to be completely removed).

    This is all after taking exact measurements of the entire cabs internal spaces so it can be modeled in cab design software (WinISD) to ensure you get the right speakers.

    It comes down to the fact that your $100 cab can end up costing you more than just getting the right cab for your rig, and in the end you will still be stuck with a "modified Crate cab" that is large, bulky, heavy, and low resale value.

    My advise - keep your $100, and continue saving for the right cab.
     
  8. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    So I should just save up for a Fearful then?
     
  9. That would depend..............

    Are you going to be selling your current amp to get a new one to use with the fEarful ?

    Trying to use your MB210 to also run a fEarful will not end well.
     
  10. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    Maybe I should clarify what exactly I want to do. My GK combo is great. I like my tone, I just want a bit more bass and clarity from it. My T-40 distorts the speakers in HB mode, and I would like a little more volume. Eventually I will be building a 15/6 and getting a 1001RB-II head or something similar. I just wanted something in the meantime. Maybe what I'll do is get some new speakers for my combo that would run at 8ohms and pull the full 500W, then decide from there. Also I'm going to dampen the combo.
     
  11. Actually, you would need a pair of 8 ohm drivers wired parallel to give you a 4 ohm total load to get 500 watts from the head, and again you are talking about laying out a good amount of money to "upgrade"

    Even then, you are expecting ALOT from a single 2X10. And, when you consider the fact there is no real gain going from an 8 ohm cab to a 4 ohm cab, it seems pointless.

    The only way to get louder is to add more speaker area. Adding another 2X10 to your current setup should give you a boost of around 5 - 6db.
     
  12. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    Derp. I meant 4 ohms. Haven't had enough coffee today. I think I might just grin and bear it until I can upgrade to a Fearful and a nice head
     
  13. philter25

    philter25

    Mar 26, 2010
    Germantown, MD
    +1 to what Bass Pounder said. We essentially gave you the same exact reply within minutes apart.

    My options would be:

    1) Purchase a cheap 8 ohm extension cabinet to get the full 500 watts from the MB210 combo. If you buy something used on here, chances are you can sell it in a year or down the line for about the same amount as you paid for it. You'd get the full 500 watts from the combo, get a volume increase, and fiscally, a used cabinet is a good route.

    2) Deal with it for the time being until you can afford something else and save up for a seperate head and cab situation.

    Also check out the Avatar TB153. clarity, 4 ohms, 4x10 size, and relatively good size / weight / price combination. plus, at 4 ohms, its a 1 cabinet solution which can be powered by any micro head.

    Whatever you do, I wouldnt recommend re-wiring or putting new speakers into your combo. As bass pounder said, you are asking too much from a 210 combo and you are better off saving up, selling your combo, and buying something else. Or else add the matching 210 extension cabinet to the combo to make it a 500 watt 4x10. Or else, the MBE115 and have a 210+115 and pull the full 500 watts if you like the tone of the MB210.
     
  14. maniac mikej

    maniac mikej

    Oct 28, 2010
    Mayfield, PA
    is there a big difference between the avatar and the fearful 15/6? I know they modeled it after the fearful designs, and theyre basically the same price. I dont really want a micro head, i'm not a huge fan of them. like I said as far as heads go I'm almost 100% set on a GK 1001RB-II
     
  15. philter25

    philter25

    Mar 26, 2010
    Germantown, MD
    I havent heard both cabs so I cant comment directly. But so a search, there have been numerous threads on the differences.

    From what Ive gathered in those threads, for most people (like 95% of bassists) they will be happy with either option. However, for the professional gigging bassist with a very intricate ear who demands absolute perfection, he might be able to hear/appreciate the differences.

    However, no offense, but considering your first option was a crate 1810 and you were planning on ripping out the crossover and wiring the cheapo crate speakers to use as an extension cab with your MB210, Im guessing that you would probably fall into the 95% of gigging bassists who would be more than happy with either option.

    If you are looking for a 1-cab solution, then the Avatar TB153 does come in a 4 ohm model which will be able to handle full power from the 1001RB-II.

    You should read up on those threads and see if those cabinets are right for your needs.
     

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