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GK1001RB & SWR Goliath III mess

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by agonyfx, Oct 8, 2003.


  1. At the risk of rambling, here is my problem, and options that I am exploring, so stay with me now. I own a GK1001RB an an 8 ohm Goliath III 4x10 cab. I bought the gear used, and somehow managed to blow all four speakers while at a gig. I either bought an abused cab, or I grossly underpowered the thing (my speculation). So, after going to Bass Central in Orlando, FL, I was exposed to a variety of options. My long term goal is to go modular: preamp, poweramp, cab. However, given the expense, I need a temporary cost-effective solution to get me back in the game. I have about two weeks.

    Here are my thoughts:
    (1) SWR replacement speakers are $130 each. If I buy these, then I will rewire the 8 ohm cab to 4 ohms. Is this recommended? How would I do this?
    (2) If I don't rewire it and buy a second 4x10 cab at 8 ohms, would it be in my interests to use an 800 watt power amp in addition to my GK head to beef up the signal? [I just bought a Mackie FS M800]
    (3) I have a 400RB. Should I use that with my Mackie to get the correct power/ohm match to a 4 ohm 700 watt cabinet?
    (4) I played through an Eden 410XLT at 4 ohms using my bass. I'd get it, but it costs $850. Is it worth the money?
    (5) How do I add ohms with respect to power? How can I tell when I am over- or under-powering my speakers?
    (6) Sell everything and buy an Ashdown.

    What do you think? :help:
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    well i think the goliath 3 takes 700 watts
    i dunno how many watts the gk puts out at 8 ohms but if you clipped it a lot then the gk put out twice as many watts as it normally does at 8 ohms and if thats more than 700 watts then that could have fried the speakers
    swr should recone the drivers for you for less than replacement speakers
    if you want to change the cab to 4 ohms you have to buy 4 ohm speakers for it (the 8 ohm model uses 8 ohm speakers wired in a series/parallel config for a net cabinet impedance of 8 ohms)
    the eden xlt also takes 700 watts
    i would tend to get the speakers reconed and keep the cab at 8 ohms - if you make it a 4 ohm cabinet it will make it that much easier to blow with your amp
    i would guess that the thing was already on its way out unless you clipped the hell out of it all night or just overpowered the cabinet all night
    getting a second 410 cab might help if you really need all that volume but make it another 8 ohm so you can use the two together
    you can tell if you are clipping or overpowering your speakers cause you will hear them distorting horribly and basically sound like they're about to break or jump out of the cabinet
    but overall i think your 1st step should be to get the speakers reconed by swr and keep the cab at 8 ohms - then see if the cab starts distorting at the volume you need to play at
     
  3. secretdonkey

    secretdonkey

    Oct 9, 2002
    Austin, TX
    I don't know specs on the 1001RB, nor how you might hook it up with the Mackie, but I suspect you could make this work: Rather than spend $850 on an Eden 4 ohm, buy a cheap-but-good Avatar b410 8 ohm cab, and have your SWR speakers reconed rather than replaced.

    I run a Goliath 8 ohm and an Avatar b410 8 ohm together (in parallel, for a 4 ohm load) with happy results. I don't like the horn on the Avatar cab so much, so I turn the attenuator down -- the Goliath has tweeter enough for both.

    If you're pushing hard enough to blow speakers (though those SWR PAS drivers *are* pretty delicate, IMO), hauling two cabs doesn't sound like a farfetched proposition, *and* it fits into the concept of a modular rig, since you can always haul just one cabinet, or (gasp) leave a cab in two locations and just lug the amp around.

    Just a thought...

    :)
     
  4. Mike A

    Mike A Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2002
    Kentucky
    Sounds like you were clipping the amp. Get more speakers to increase volume instead of just cranking the amp.

    I have a 1001rb and 700rb... very rarely have to push 'em past 12 o'clock. A friend of mine pushes his Goliath 410 with an SM-400... which is less that the 8 ohm rating with the 1001rb (I believe). Never had any problems with it...
     
  5. Thanks for your responses, guys.
    Reconing: I am not sure that the voice coil is in tact. It takes $65 avg. price for a professional diagnosis by the authorized SWR service centers in Florida. It costs $69 per speaker plus shipping to recone, and the service center is in California (I called SWR and they referred me to several service centers), which one of the reps also recommended to recone instead of replace.
    GK1001RB: rated 540 watts at 4 ohms and 340 watts at 8 ohms. At my gig, I was playing at half the volume of rehersals. All I can say to that is my cab went out during the encore of our set, near the end of "Fear of the Dark."
    Avatar: Where can I play these? I don't want to just order them and find out...It was a trip just to get to Bass Central in Orlando, and after looking online, I can't find a dealer location near me. Oh. I just read that they have a return policy, but I am still hesitant.
    If I can only find a good deal on Eminence Delta 10 replacements...Cheers.
     
  6. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    Just my opinion but I wouldn't go with the Deltas. One of my two Swr goliath Jr's had the speakers replaced with emminence Deltas and there is a world of difference between the two. The one with the deltas is not near as loud and is lacking in low end. I'm thinking about replacing them with the emminence kappas or legend 10's since I've seen the $130 each price tag on the PAS 10's. Well see what happens. It's low priority for me since i'll be using my bag Ends most of the time anyway.
     
  7. Hmmm, okay. You are the first to say that, and, since you are the only one who can back up your statement with experience, you hold a lot of weight. I will be more thorough in my decisions.

    Also, during the gig, my master volume and input volume were both at about 40%, or 11 o'clock, since I go direct out and only need stage volume. I was thumpin' fairly aggressively, and, not that I think it makes any difference, my pickups are active. During rehersals, the master volume is at 2 o'clock and the input volume at 3 o'clock. Obviously, I pluck harder when I want a bit louder sound. Hope that is the clarification you asked for.
     
  8. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    oh, btw, generally the voice coil gets replaced during reconing (at least thats what eden did for me whan i got my 410t done)
     
  9. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    btw I am going only by what I am hearing between the two cabs. Others here have more knowledge as to why this speaker or that would work with your cab.
     
  10. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    That is certainly driving that rig too hard. You're more than likely clipping the amp and your probably also making those speakers move further than they're designed to.

    Though I'm stumped as to why the would give up inder more reasonable playing conditions.

    Is it possible he fatigued the speakers at rehearsals and the gig was the straw that broke the cammels back so to speak.

    BTW, you don't have to go to SWR to get a recone. Any decent repairer should be able to do it. The best part is you will also get a diagnosos of what actually killed the speaker, so you'll know what to do to avoid blowing them again. You could get replacements but without knowing why these speakers blew, you'll probably just fry the new ones as well.
     
  11. That's the key, though. A lot of the electronic shops around here say that reconing is not that effective (which translates to me that they either don't get that much business, or that they don't have many skilled employees). The closest shop that said reconing would be a cinch is in California. I know for a fact there are closer places, I just can't find them.