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Glueby question - glueing large surfaces

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by Matthew Tucker, Apr 17, 2006.


  1. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    I'm building up a neck and bottom blocks out of 50 x 120 tight-grained WRC

    I preheated the wood with a heat gun to give me a little more set up time before the glue gels. that seemed to work.

    But is there a trick to stop the wood skating and sliding around under clamp pressure? I'm thinking that this is going to be a problem when i start jointing the top.
     
  2. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny
    Heating a soft wood won't help much. Better to heat your space. A tbsp of urea added to 4 oz of pure hide works well at retarding without sacrifice. Rehearse your clamping procedure, mark clamps and wood with #'s and arrows. Lastly one trick that isn't always kosher is to tack a small brad in the wood and clip it as close as possible to the wood. This leaves a tiny point and locks the new piece in place without skating.
     
  3. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    If you are glueing up layers which are identical in size/shape, make a form to hold them in place while they glue. They can't slip if they are restrained.
     
  4. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    Thanks guys, all useful suggestions.

    I like the registration pin idea, especially as I can put these in a part of the block that will be removed in the shaping. Same when I glue up the wood for the belly, I can put registration pins at the ends that will be cut off before shaping.

    I'm not laminating the block, just making up a thick enough piece from what wood I can get easily here in Oz. The grain is still running in the same direction, slightly off vertical. From what I can tell, this will be as good as a single piece, and certainly no worse than block that has cracked and been reglued.
     
  5. nicklloyd

    nicklloyd Supporting Member/Luthier

    Jan 27, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Multi-piece upper blocks are not uncommon.

    You can purchase urea in the form of little white pellets at your local gardening center. Be prepared to only find 50lb bags, though! It will prolly be under $20. 15% (by dry weight) will give you over a minute of clamping time, and the joint-strength will not be adversely affected.
     
  6. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    Since I've got three fine luthiers in the same room i might as well ask my NEXT question which is - what's your favourite tool or tools for roughing out the top? I have a flat block plane, a stanley 100 1/2 curved sole plane with 15/16 blade, a straight curved-sole wooden plane I made for shaping the corner blocks.

    I figure I will need some gouges but which?

    It will be a four-piece vertical grained WRC top with max 45mm arching and I'm hoping that increasing the top thicknesses given in the (Chandler) plans by 1mm all over will be enough.
     
  7. Damon Rondeau

    Damon Rondeau Journeyman Clam Artist Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2002
    Winnipeg, baby
    I've heard some stories about cabinet-makers of yore -- who of course didn't have nice commercial urea pellets to buy -- doing the job "on the natch" as it were. A little whiz in the glue pot and you've got some retarded glue all right.
     
  8. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny
    Why do you want ot make it thicker?
    I like curved planes for this job. Don't really use gouges except on the edge and corners.
     
  9. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    hmm. Just something i retained from some post on this board i think, said that WRC being lighter and softer than spruce needed to be left thicker to maintain the strength. Maybe I need to research this more. What do you think? You've used WR Cedar for a top I believe.

    what size curved planes are you talking about? The variable sole "radius" planes or something more custom-made? Even the biggest Ibex ones seem really tiny for bass-making.
     
  10. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    Years ago I took my ECE block plane (beech with a lignum sole) and recut the sole to convex in both directions. Then I rounded the blade, sharpened, and PRESTO!, a huge arching plane. The only negative is that the throat is quite open. It works best on soft woods. Good news is it's big enough to get two hands on.
     
  11. nicklloyd

    nicklloyd Supporting Member/Luthier

    Jan 27, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    That's what she said.


    Favorite arching tools: power hand planer (to set the long arch and remove gross amounts of wood) router with slot-wing cutter (to set the edge around the outline at 7mm) Lancelot angle grinder (to remove even more huge amount of wood/graduations) these 28" two gouges from Dick (http://www.dick.biz/isroot/dick/Files/AbbildungGross/700977.jpg) will get you great results, and then thumbplanes, scrapers, etc.

    With thick graduations you can always go back and thin out areas of the top, if need be.
     
  12. nicklloyd

    nicklloyd Supporting Member/Luthier

    Jan 27, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I wouldn't complain.
     
  13. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    Moderator!!!!!!!!!!!:help:
     
  14. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny
    Wrc is less in specific density but it is a much stiffer wood[shut up, nick]. If you cut two equal lengths of cedar and spruce you can easily feel the difference in flexability. With identical arches of spruce and cedar you could go significantly thinner on the wrc and still have a strong enough arch. That doesn't neccessarily equate to a better tone though.
     
  15. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    :D

    .....ok it's to easy.
     
  16. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    more hmmmm ... that's the opposite of what I read read elsewhere. But you've done it, so i believe you. I don't have any spruce to compare with, so I'm going on a hunch really, wrc has a nice ring to it, straight grain no knots, appears stable and light. I suppose I'll just stick with the thicknesses given and go by feel.
     
  17. nicklloyd

    nicklloyd Supporting Member/Luthier

    Jan 27, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    !
     
  18. Matthew Tucker

    Matthew Tucker Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
    don't you think the joke is wearing a bit thin by now?
     
  19. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    I dunno dude. Kind of a wide swing on that one. I'd wait for a better pitch. They seem to be serving up some taters.
     
  20. nicklloyd

    nicklloyd Supporting Member/Luthier

    Jan 27, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Anything worth doing once is worth driving into the ground until it eventually taken over by little red ants and smelly white algae.
     

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