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Good amp/cab setup to handle LOW, like the F#...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Brendan, Oct 22, 2000.


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  1. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    I need an amp/cab or combo that will handle some mud moving lows of a F# and B without blowing out or crapping out. Right now I have a 200 watt Crate B80XL 15"er, but I'm needing to upgrade in quality (not volume, that I got) and need something to hand uber lows, price doesn't matter...
     
  2. CamMcIntyre

    CamMcIntyre

    Jun 6, 2000
    USA
    JT knows more about this than me by far but heres what i think. The elf thing with an 18inch speaker should be able to handle the low f#. Sorry i don't know much bout the elf besides what JT has posted on it. thats all
     
  3. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    It's made by Bag End, you need the 18" cabinet, which IIRC is around $550, and then you need the module, the one that goes down to 18hz is like $500, they make another module that goes down to :eek:8hz:eek: that I have no idea how much it cost. I believe that BASSNW has the gear.
     
  4. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    OH! BTW - I almost forgot! The Elf system takes massive amounts of power. You would probably need a minimum of 1000 watts for decent volume, just for your sub.

    Of course, the lowest frequncies always take the most power.
     
  5. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    1000 watts? Is that the power of the amp? Or the power it takes to run the amp? If so, would that mean I couldn't plug it into a regular outlet?

    Oh, and when I say amp (henceforth) I mean the amp/cab/head/combo, ext as a whole. So amp does not mean amp module, it means the whole thing I plug my bass into to make sound, not the actual amp itself....
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Like they're saying, some 18's (good ones) and a thousand watts out for the F#. A thousand watts out means more than a thousand watts in. This is not the same as a thousand volts. A regular 110/120 volt outlet should handle it, as long as you have at least a 15-amp circuit breaker. The power supply would require something on the order of 10 amps in at full power. Some hair dryers take 1200 watts.
     
  7. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    hey there.

    what everybody has been saying re: the elf is pretty sound. i also suggest trying out some 18" loaded pa subs - not the double 18"s but the single 18" pa subs - they can be fairly inexpensive and they can do a good job. still, they need a lot more power than a regular range cab, but they are a good cheap alternative to the bag end route.

    i use this sub ...

    http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gUPS00008CLUB+SERIES

    they say on the specs that it only works down to 30 Hz, but it sounds really good and distinct all the way down to the low F# - i really like the sound, and it's pretty light and cheap too - ~$350.
     
  8. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    $350! Hot damn:D I might be able to afford this gear pretty soon! Now, what kind of head/power would I use to power those subs?
     
  9. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    a pretty strong one - look for something that has a decent eq AT LEAST down to 30 Hz. i use an aguillar db680 or a trace elliot ah600smx :D.
     
  10. Babs

    Babs

    May 5, 2000
    Sandy Utah
    I agree going with Bagend with and ELF processor is going to be the only way to go, the ELF M2 Processor goes to 18Hz and the ELF 1 goes all the way down to 8HZ. But the problem is $$$$$$$ it will cost around $1600.00 and $2000.00 just to get into a processor and an 18" Cab. Then you do need to get a good power amp because these run at 8 ohms so need lots of power. but THey sound incredible for anybody who has ever heard on they know what I am talking about. But if you are going to go with a f# and a B you are going to have to pay for it.
     
  11. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    If you really need super lows, you are looking into PA subwoofer setups, like the Bag End stuff. The low B is what, 28 Hz...F# must be close to 20 Hz, you're lucky if you can even HEAR that fundamental even if you could reproduce it.

    Do you go through the PA at gigs? If so, you don't need the lows coming out of your amp for the AUDIENCE to hear it.

    The super low frequencies will be hard to control on stage as you go from room to room, will require LOTS of power, extra electronics (crossovers, etc.) and very big and expensive speaker cabs.

    You should think long and hard about how important this is to you because it is going to be a huge expense and hassle to get what you think you want.
     
  12. 31.something...
     
  13. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    If your on a tight budget the single 18" PA cabinet with its own amplifier and maybe a crossover may do the trick for you.

    The Bag End system deffinatly does the job and is not a problem on stage. The ELF cabinet $550-750, ELF-M1 processor $900, and a power amp that dilivers 400 watts into 8 ohms. This is were using seperats (preamp/power amp) starts making sense.

    The ELF 18" sealed cabinet is small compared to most vented PA cabinets. It ain't cheep but it goes deep.
     
  14. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Sounds to me like you're going to have to try to talk your local music store into letting you take a rig out on a gig. Sounds like the trick will be Turner's Yamaha 18" sub and some honkin' power amp that will send it 600 watts @ 8 ohms, and a crossover.

    Good thing "price doesn't matter", as you said...even the low-end (pun intended) rig I've prescribed as a bare minimum will set you back at least $1200 - $1500.

     
  15. danhei

    danhei

    Jan 21, 2000
    If you are using a PA sub cabinet you are most likely also going to need a cab to handle the mids and highs. Probably something like a 210. So that's going to drive the price even higher! Maybe $1500-$2000.

    Dan
     
  16. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Oh, heck! I was referring to what he was gonna have to ADD! I was assuming that the existing combo amp would handle the high side. That was what the crossover was for.

     
  17. danhei

    danhei

    Jan 21, 2000
    The combo could be used to handle the mids and highs but I think it would be a little cheesy to go through the trouble of using a poweramp, crossover, sub cab, etc. and then throw the combo in. Obviously, this is subject to whatever budget constraints there may or may not be. But if price really doesn't matter then this is the setup I would go for in this situation:

    -good power amp
    -yamaha (or ELF) sub cab
    -2x10" cab
    -preamp
    -crossover

    Of course this starts to add up quickly! But it would sound great!

    Dan
     
  18. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Assuming Brendan is still listening:

    If you're gonna go whole hog, many bass preamps come with a crossover built in. Get one of those and you won't need a separate crossover.

     
  19. phil_chew

    phil_chew

    Mar 22, 2000
    Asia
    Is it even humanly possible to hear the low F#? Heck, sometimes I even have trouble hearing the low B.
     
  20. The lower limit of human hearing is about 10-20Hz (variable, if I recall correctly, average 18Hz, further down there is no smooth sound heard, maybe some dicrete vibrations), so F# is probably heard well. I suppose it's around 25Hz (?) The lowest musical note is accepted to be C of that octave (16Hz, used in organs I suppose). Well, maybe the suboctave of the low B might even be heard, who knows? I suppose if you have problems hearing conventional low B, it's not your hearing, but speakers.
     



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