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Good Cab?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by joel the bass player, Nov 11, 2001.

  1. I have been trying to figure out what my next cab will be. Right now I am looking at a couple.
    -SWR Goliath SR
    -Ampeg 610hlf
    -SWR Goliath III (maybe add a 15 later)

    If you have any experiance with these, or what do you think is better. Not much stuff here about the Ampeg, but there is some info on the SWR stuff. I will be driving it with my SVT3pro, and will be playing many different types of music, so I want a loud and transparent tone. I really like the 6x10s, and if I get a 4x10, it will be a while before I add a 15. In the future I plan on replacing my amp with something like an Eden or SWR.

    Thanks for any replies!

  2. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    how loud do you need to be? If you need to really throw it down the golIII wont be enough, so go with the sr. never heard teh ampeg 6x10, but it sounds like youre tryin to move to a more hifi kinda sound, so i would stay away from that.

    my vote goes to the sr, or better yet, a henry the 8x8 assuming you dont need gobs of volume
  3. I should have put this in there to, but the last time I was at a local store they had 2 used Henrys and 2 used SOB's. Maybe I should try those out. I think my tastes are going more hi-fi, so we'll see where this ends.

  4. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Just a few hours ago, I went to a local music shop around here with the intent that the SWR Goliath, a 4x10 I had had my sights on for a very long time, would beat out any of the other boutique cabs. WHOA!! I played the Bergantino 3x10, Eden D-410XLT, and the SWR Goliath, A/B style. The Eden won hands down. The Eden sounded more efficient, crisper ear-pleasing highs which also made harmonics sound better (than the Goliath), and the lows were more intense, cleaner, and more full than the Goliaths bass. The Eden beat the Bergantino just because I favored the tone more of the Eden than the Berg. I have changed my entire view on my situation with cabs I would like to purchase, and now, and maybe permanently, my cab I'm aiming for is the Eden D-410XLT. Oh yeah it was like $850 or something. Forget the Goliath, it sucks, sorry to say, compared to the Eden, and the sad thing is the Eden was only 90 bucks more than the SWR yet there was such a big difference in tone, quality, and construction. I know alot of people say Eden this, Eden that, but you just have to make your own decision based on your own views, not someone elses.

    Just play it and you'll be amazed. I know I was.:D
  5. Will an Eden 4x10 (XLT OR XST) have as much volume as a Goliath Senior? I do want a Hi-fi tone, but really want one really loud cab. I will be saving for a while any ways, so as long as it is around $1100 or less, it will be ok.

  6. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    I keep finding D410XLT's in nice shape used for ~$500.
  7. Hmm,
    I felt exactly the opposite about the Goliath III and the 410xlt. I found the SWR to be tighter and more punchy than the Eden. I found the top end in both cabs to be pretty similar. The Eden didn't seem noticeably more efficient.. Overall I thought the construction was about equal. I definately preferred the sound of the SWR. Now, I'm picking nits here because both are great cabs and I wouldn't turn either down. That being said, I bought a Goliath III. I'm powering it with a 70's SVT head. I can only think of a few situations where it wouldn't be loud enough. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if the Eden 410 would be able to keep up with the Goliath Sr. in terms of brute force. Of course, this leads to me telling you that you need to try a bunch of stuff and make your own decision, based on what your ears tell you. I don't think you'd be disappoited in either the Eden or the SWR. I haven't had the chance to try Bergantino or Acme. I tried the Epifani 410, and I didn't think it sounded good enough to warrant the pricetag...... As Brad said, check out used ones too, you could luck into a smokin' deal.
  8. cassanova


    Sep 4, 2000
    If your looking for hi-fi, the eden xst 4x10 is the way to go. IMO it sounds much better than the choices you are looking at. Even the xlt 4x10 imo is a better way to go over ampeg and swr.

    But as for the ones you mentioned i myself would go for the ampeg 6x10, i prefer the sound of it over the swr cabs, and it gets pleanty loud.
  9. Just some technical info for you:

    SWR Goliath III: 105dB SPL 1W1M.
    low frequency cutoff: -3dB: 40 Hz.
    Power handling: 700W RMS (ie Program)

    Eden 410XLT: 106dB SPL 1W1M.
    low frequency cutoff: -2 dB: 50Hz, -6dB@31Hz.
    I'd guess the -3 point on the Eden would be at about 45-48Hz.
    power handling: 700W RMS.

    Eden 410XST: 104 dB SPL 1W1M.
    LF cutoff: -2 dB: 36Hz, -6dB@31Hz (which leads me to believe that they are exaggerating the -6dB point on the XLT...)
    power handling: 1000W RMS.

    So the specs are very similar, with the XLT having the worst low frequency response and the XST having the best. Their efficiencies are close enough that they don't make any difference. You (or I or anyone) can't hear a 1 dB difference in SPL, especially at levels of 105 dB. The efficiency of the cab doesn't really tell you much, of course. Their testing criteria may be different, etc.
    The Ampeg is a different animal altogether. I would expect it to be loud, but not as hifi as the SWR or Eden.
  10. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    the sr doesnt get as low as the standard goliath (-3 db at 55hz) but more efficient (110 db 1w1m) and handles 1 KILOWATT.

    and those efficiencs are meaningful cuz theyre all 1w @ 1m

    so sr is loudest, with xst hittin the lowest
  11. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    oh, and program power handling isnt the same thing as RMS
  12. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    This is not unusual, it means the XST port design simply has a steeper rolloff.

    I have used cabs built to EV plans that were like this, you could add a "plug" to block some of the port and change the low end rolloff to one that start rolling off earlier but did so more slowly so that with some EQ boost (and power) you could actually get more low end extension. I used the cab with and without plug and it worked as advertised.

    Gotta be careful shopping by specs alone.
  13. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    I usually base my opinion on what a cab sounds like, which is rarely representable in specs. So far, comparing comparable Eden and SWR cabs, I'd give Eden the edge on lows and punch. Just my ears, of course.
  14. MikeyD


    Sep 9, 2000
    I have a great deal of skepticism when it comes to the sensitivity figures I've seen from SWR. The 6x10's 110 dB sensitivity is not very credible, given that they claim the 8x10 Megoliath's is 100 dB. And this is questionable itself, given that the Goliath III (4x10) is claimed to be 105. This is funny business, so I really don't trust their numbers at all. I'm also a little skeptical about Eden's -6 dB frequency points as well - seems like most of their cabinets have the same frequency. Problem is, there's no one out there doing independent tests and verification of these figures, so buyer beware.
    - Mike
  15. Part of the point of posting the specs was to drive home what I said in a previous post:

    The only way to decide which one to get is to try them all and decide which one you like best.

    The specs for the cabs are very similar, but they do sound different.

    No RMS and Program aren't exactly the same thing. But, the RMS power rating is pretty close to max program power for most speakers.

    The only meaningful efficiency would be the Sr. which I forgot about. Our SPL resolution isn't good enough to detect a one dB difference. In a few cases you might be able to hear 2 dB... AND, this is only meaningful if the testing procedure is the same (or close), and the company isn't fudging their results.

    Again, you need to play all of them to find the one that suits you.;)
  16. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    odd about the mega being only 100...never looked cuz theres no way id ever consider buyin a cabinet tht can only be moved on the back of an elephant. Maybe cuz its divided into 2 4x10s internally it less efficient as opposed to the srs 6 10s all in one volume? I have no idea...

    I think the reason people think the xlt goes deeper than hte swr cabs is that peak they have in the low mids which covers that theyre really not gettin down that low (not that the swrs are perfect either)

    And yeah, go audition everything and buy the one you like best, cuz when it comes down to it alot of what goes on here is just not-very-relavent purely academic debate. Not that it's not sometimes helpful (and always fun :D ), but how the cab sounds to your ears, not how the spec sheet looks to your eyes is what ultimately matters.
  17. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    since each of the discussed cabs are so close as is on paper and on in-store tests, just be more critical next time you try them in the store. Listen for hum, hiss, fullness of the bass, which one is louder which would lead me to believe which one is more efficient. REMEMBER!!! You can only do this by playing the same bass, and the same amp with each cab, and remember to run atleast 2 tests on each cab running the amp EQ and settings flat and running them to your liking, so you get a feel for what your sound will be like. Also remember to have a saleperson at all times during this so you can also see how the cab sounds with the volume up, as well as low volume. Just a suggestion because thats what I do.
  18. EString


    Nov 20, 2000
    Los Altos, CA
    f.y.o 8x10s are usually no more efficient or less efficient than smaller cabs.
  19. Chances are I will never be able to try both in a close time period, as there is only one Eden dealer and one more SWR dealer. Maybe someday I can try them. Looks like the funds are lacking since I have to buy new tires for my vehicle and it will be a little while before I have enough money again for a new cab. Thanks for all the replies! I guess I need to take my own amp and bass to the store to try it out.:D

  20. cassanova


    Sep 4, 2000
    me too :D

    also IMO the Edens sound clearer than Ampeg/SWR's

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