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Good DIY 12" speaker to use?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Pneuma, Jul 20, 2005.


  1. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas
    I’m kicking around the idea of modeling up a 212 cab, and I’m looking for a good speaker to build with. This’ll most likely be used with a 5 string, so it’ll need a bit of low end to keep up. Anyone have any input on a good 12” to build with? I’ve looked through Eminence’s list, and I’ve yet to see anything that really sparks my interest. I'd definately like to spend less than $150 per driver, if that's reasonable.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    P.
     
  2. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Supporting Member

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    interesting project, waiting for Bill to jump in......
     
  3. The Clap

    The Clap

    Jan 5, 2004
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Eminence:
    Delta 12lf
    Omega Pro 12

    Both good, and different, drivers. If you keep an eye out on Ebay you can get 2 Delta 12lf's for <$150 shipped. If you can swing $150 per driver though, look into B&C brand speakers, they have a few high-performance neo 12 models at www.partexpress.com

    Edit/ meant to recommend the Omega Pro 12, not the Gamma 12
     
  4. Magnum 12HO, $187 shipped. The price is below MAP, so the dealers cannot advertise this price. Contact me privately if you want the dealer name.

    Omega Pro 12, $151 plus shipping. This is a MAP price.

    Put the Magnum into a Tuba30, put the Omega Pro into a 1.23 cubic foot 1x12 and mate it with an Eminence Alpha 6. The Tuba will give you a lot more of everything, but is very large (30"x30"x24~30") and about 150 pounds.

    Link to Omega Pro 12 1x12 Design

    Link to Tuba 30 Plans
     
  5. Take a look at the Eminecnce Delta 12LF, I am currently building a cabinet using that driver and find it can go pretty low on paper with the right volumes, and port tuning. Yet to start building though- as I had orginally planned a 212 but found a cheap used Ampeg 410He that took my fancy; so Now I am building a smaller 112 for smaller / acoustic gigs and practice.

    If you've never built before there is a load of online stuff to help you out- and a few cabinet volume/tuning programs that will be handy too. Check out winsid or speaker pro, I've heard lots of good about them, I use winsid personally and find it quiet easy to use.
     
  6. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas
    Thanks for the reccomendations folks.

    How do the B&C's do compared to the Eminence neos? They seem to have a high Fs compared to the normal drivers, I wonder how well they would do when tuned to get a strong low B.

    P.
     
  7. thedoctor

    thedoctor

    Jun 20, 2005
    I have been very disappionted with the Emminence neo bass speakers. I love their speakers for guitar cabs but their bass speakers have a real "balls" issue. By the way, IMHO!
     
  8. The Clap

    The Clap

    Jan 5, 2004
    Scottsdale, AZ
    The Eminence Neo 12 isn't highly recommended, but I have had great luck with a pair of Neo 10s in a 210 I built myself. I haven't heard much of anything good about the Neo 12 though.
     
  9. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Supporting Member

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    no kidding.....my GKNEO112 has an Eminence equipped driver and it does a pretty decent job in the "balls" department for me, your mileage may vary.
    ;)
     
  10. The Eminence Deltalite 2512 Neo is disappointing, for sure.

    In SBB4, it requires 3.15 cubic feet and has a resonable F3 of 55 Hz. The Xmax on this driver is very limited, and drive exceeds Xmax in SBB4 at only 38 watts input power.

    A big cabinet (read: heavy), a short Xmax, and only a modest Xmech makes this driver useless for electric bass, IMO.

    :spit:
     
  11. Monomer

    Monomer

    Jul 22, 2005

    Mag12ho is the way to go.

    I got a quote for 182 shipped.
     
  12. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Pneuma, how powerful is your amp?
     
  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The driver you use is 25% of the job at best, the cabinet you put it in is 75% at least. The first part of the job is to choose an appropriate cabinet design, then you choose the driver that will work the best in it at a price you can afford.
     
  14. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas
    Haven't exactly settled on an amp yet. I doubt I'll own anything less than 500w for a solid state bass amp from here on out. I could easily see myself getting one of the Kustom heads or using a Crest power amp or something of that nature. Natually, if I ever went tubes it'd be more in the 200 - 300w range.

    Cab will probably be a fairly straight-forward normally sized ported box, no tweeter. Alignment is still up in the air, but that will depend on the driver. I'd like to keep it somewhat flat, with enough low end for a decent low B.... probably no more than -6dB down at 31hz, less if I can get it.

    P.
     
  15. You can get this, but at a huge loss in efficiency.

    Download my spread sheet. Sort it by (I) Size and (Y) F3 for the SBB4 alignment, which is usually the lowest tuning.

    There are a number of 12" drivers with an F3 around 31 Hz or a bit higher, but they are either power hungry subwoofers, or efficient drivers in huge boxes.
     
  16. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas
    I actually already have your sheet. :) Nice piece of work you have there. Thanks for the suggestion though, I hadn't thought to look at it lately.

    P.
     
  17. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    An f3 at 31 is an unrealistic expectation. The Delta 12LF goes about as low and flat as is possible with a reasonable amount of sensitivity, and it's limited to a 38Hz f3 at best. The good news is that you don't need a 31Hz f3, unless you're playing pipe organ. Even with 5 strings to a low B a 45 Hz f3 is quite sufficient. The 12LF is limited on the upper end, if you plan on a simple VB I'd make it an W-M-W configuration with a six or eight midrange between 12s above and below.
     
  18. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas

    Right, like I said, -6dB at 31 is more along the lines of what I thought would be reasonable. Is that not much more doable? I realize that the f3 at 31 would be very difficult to get while still having any overall volume, but I figured a f6 of the same frequency would probably give the whole thing a lot more overall guts.

    P.
     
  19. The Clap

    The Clap

    Jan 5, 2004
    Scottsdale, AZ
    The fact is, the vast majority of commercial bass cabs come nowhere close to a quarterpower point of 31hz. Especially when we're talking about a 12" speaker, focusing on very low frequency reproduction isn't going to get you the best results. It's a matter of moving air, and any 12 with good response at 30-40hz is going to need a huge box and/or have a relatively low sensitivity. If you're serious about making that B fundamental, you're looking for larger drivers, speaker cabinets, and amplifiers.
     
  20. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You don't need even an f10 at 31 Hz to put out a B fundamental. The fundamental tone within the first octave of electric bass has a power requirement at least 12dB less than that of the second harmonic, so if the speaker's sensitivity at 31 Hz is 12dB down from that at 62Hz it will be able to reproduce the fundamental at a normal level relative to the harmonics without EQ boost. That being the case a sealed alignment (which has 12dB/octave roll off) flat to 62 Hz is adequate for five string, though with a vented box (which has 24dB/octave roll off) an f3 around 45 Hz would be required.