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Guitar Out Of Sync Issue

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Fair Warning, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. Fair Warning

    Fair Warning Deliverin' the Goods! Supporting Member

    So I have been playing a while and have encountered this similar problem with guitarists over the years. All of these guitarist are experienced and have been with bands all their lives.

    The problem typical when the guitarist goes into his lead, as the drummer and I maintain the count and the rhythm. All is fine until the guitarist comes out from his lead, but them joins the rhythem where he thinks it is, not at all where the drummer and I are.

    So I am sitting there at the last gig looking over at the gui****, and he is a measure off from the rest of the band, and he is just playing along like he hears something is wrong, but just goes along without making any adjustment.

    So thinking back at previous bands, I have had similar/same guitar sync issues when they come out of leads.

    Any similar experiences? How to work through this...?
  2. lowfreq33


    Jan 27, 2010
    Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
    Have them turn down, because they clearly can't hear the rhythm section.
  3. i start counting and calling chords
  4. jive1

    jive1 Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    As soon as the guitarist messes up, give him a nudge, have the drummer do a big fill and then start that section over again.
  5. ma4rk


    Jun 28, 2012
    Sydney, Australia
    He's really letting you down! Address it in rehearsal - or even try recording it & show him how bad it is. A good musician should know when a solo is over because a good musician LISTENS to the rest of the band. Tell him he's making a fool of himself, which makes you & the drummer look like fools too :meh:
  6. +1

    Find a guitarist who is at least a half way decent musician.
  7. This.
  8. BogeyBass


    Sep 14, 2010
    Yes address the issue right away. Depends on the age of the player.

    If they are young and understanding the might be willing to work on the issue. count the change, tell them the proper key etc etc.
    Start from one bar before the change and practice it over and over.

    Then the old saying, "You cant teach a old dog new tricks" if they are older players. They are clueless and lost in their old ways.
    Sounds harsh...but i have worked with older gui****s. Most of them wont listen and do a thing. Almost as bad as singers. Wont change a darn thing. The whole band has to skip a beat and correct for the actual mistake they are making. And if you bring it up somehow it always ends up being everyone elses fault not theirs...
  9. mambo4


    Jun 9, 2006
    That's just poor musicianship. All players bear equal responsibility for knowing where the 1 is.
    He could try to construct his solos in some outline form ahead of time to make sure they fit correctly. Or always end them with a long, held note, so he can nod to you and the drummer to play an awesome break/ fill /solo back into the 1.

    But really he should learn to count.
  10. If he can't FEEL the changes and the end of a verse or a chorus, he's got more problems than just ending a solo in the right place.
  11. ChrisB2

    ChrisB2 Bass... in your fass

    Feb 27, 2008
    TalkBass > Off Topic
    Yes it's poor musicianship, and also possibly a lack of talent. Some people just never get it when it comes to feeling the changes and the flow of the song.

    It's not just guitarists. It may be the singer, the drummer, or even the bassist. :eek: Sometimes the offender can learn to play better, sometimes they can't.

    I don't know if a hard talking-to will have any positive effect. Maybe, maybe not... you may have to decide if you can tolerate the poor musicianship... or not.
  12. CraigTB


    Feb 16, 2012
    Yeah I agree with everyone else that's just poor musicianship and s/he needs to fix that.

    That said, it wasn't until I got serious about my playing until I realized how there's more than a few smoking lead guitar players out there who play lousy rhythm.

    Like the guy that can rip out amazing solos but can't gel with the rest of the band when it comes time to hold the chords down with good time & tone.

    Makes me cherish the really good rhythm players.
  13. jaywa


    May 5, 2008
    Iowa City, IA
    It's like lead guitarists think as soon as their solo turn comes that they have no responsibility to keep their rhythm intact. It's maddening as hell. Listen to the old Ozzy Osbourne records with Randy Rhoads... Daisley and Kerslake are holding it down but when Rhoads goes off on his leads he's off to the races. I love those songs but I can't listen to them anymore cause Rhoads' lack of time feel is so glaring.

    IMO one of the top two or three criteria for any current or potential band member is the ability to keep time internally regardless of what else is going on. If even one band member comes up short in this regard the band will be less than it could be and it's not just limited to the drummer. A lead guitarist, keyboardist or singer with bad tempo/rhythm can really drag a band down no matter how solid their drummer and bassist are.

    Makes me cherish the really good rhythm players.

    YES! They're a rare breed indeed.
  14. jive1

    jive1 Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    Is this a solo that's exactly XX measures long, or is it more of a jam where the solo can vary from time to time? If it's the latter, then someone in the band can give the guitarist a cue such as a nod, drum fill, or vocalist stepping up to the mic to let them know that that section is over. Or, the guitarist can cue the band that the solo is coming to an end. If I'm playing a jam type lead, I will usually cue the band a few measures ahead of time to let them know that I'm finishing up and it's back to whatever section and the vocalist can sing again. After a while, the guys will pick up on my habits and can hear the end of a solo without the cue.

    Now after you've ironed out the onstage communication, and he still flubs it up, it's may be time to get a new guitar player.
  15. skwee


    Apr 2, 2010
    When I've seen this happen, it's most often that the person jumps the gun and comes in too early, or begins to rush. Their internal rhythm basically gets superseded by their nerves/adrenaline and goes into overdrive. I currently work with a kid that does this from time to time, and it took him about 6 months to settle down. A few things help:

    1) rehearsal. When someone feels very prepared, they are less likely to get nervous in a soloing situation. Try getting into the solo section three times in a row in rehearsal, or till they feel comfortable.

    2) Having visual cues is very helpful, and you may want to get in a stage position where the guitarist can see you, and offer to really show with your head and a smile where the beat is. Basically acting like a conductor does for cues.

    3) Remember that in an improv situation, an improv doesn't have to be 100% new notes each time. Having a couple of go-to motives to start or end a solo with are very helpful, and ensure that timing always goes smoothly.

    4) Simplify, simplify, simplify the solo.
  16. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv
    It really boils down to how much of a problem it is for you. You probably can't fix him if he doesn't even know where he is in the song. If you've had it, then replace him; if not, work with the drummer to figure out how to get in sync with him. I play in a trio and our guitar player get off once in a while. The drummer and I just look at each other and get back with him. No big deal. He's right on 99.9% of the time.
  17. bassjnky1

    bassjnky1 Supporting Member

    As the bass man I feel a certain responsibility for keeping things together. If I'm playing with another musician that can get into long involved solos I will usually give him and the rest of the band stonger cues as to where the count is...accents, fills etc so that they can feel where the "1" is. Some solos are over highly structured chord changes and others vamp in a key. Help a bro out and give the band the structure it needs. Some need a little or none. Some need more. Just my .02.
  18. Beller


    Aug 8, 2009
    Statesboro, GA
    Have experienced the same problem. My soulution, when the lead solo is over lead guitarist puts alot of heel on his volume pedal. ALOT! Don't need him, don't want him on rhythm. He can ease back in when he's got it going. Problem solved.
  19. skychief


    Apr 27, 2011
    South Bay

    This works!! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

    I had to resort to this method a couple of times (with different guitar players).
  20. bluewine

    bluewine Banned

    Sep 4, 2008
    Really is that way us older guys play the game. Were clueless?

    How does this sound?

    Don't bother trying to show anything to younger musicians their clueless

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