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Hardcore Vs. Metal

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by basegetar, May 12, 2002.

  1. Alright, my friends are telling me there is a difference between Hardcore and Metal. Old Hardcore, I agree, it's punk music with louder guitars and... a lot sloppier. But then apparently Hardcore changed... and became metal. My friends say, "Hardcore is chunky guitar and fast drums." Ehhh, that's metal. Then they said, "Hardcore music depends on the hardcore scene." How can you hear the "scene" on the cd? COuld someone give a definition of hardcore and how it's different?
  2. SMASH

    SMASH Guest

    Jan 18, 2000
    Hardcore - devoid of ridiculous visual and lyrical imagery. The hardcore kids look decent and they write about worthy subjects for the most part.

    Hardcore - new and vital and progressive whereas metal (death, grind, black) has become self-parody and almost resistant to change/development.

    Hardcore is the new metal. Essentially progressive young musicians playing music directly dereived from King Crimson by way of Voivod. Any "metal fan" such as myself who is in it for the brave musical aspect (progressive technical playing and composition, emotion, etc.) has essentially abandoned "metal" for hardcore for the reasons cited above.

    Metal has a huge (re)surge in popularity over the last 5-10 years and as happens with any scene that explodes the copycat bands move in and the leeching labels and magazines move in and nothing but derivative crap is heaped on the scene until it suffocates and collapses beneath the weight of the rubbish. The great bands are lost in mess. Also the fans discover the wonder of debt, rent, mortgages, and alimony, and don't have as much money left over for magazines, tickets, and CDs.

    This happened with techno, grunge, 80s metal, and is now happening with rap too IMO ... as well as 90s metal.
  3. Word SMASH my brother! Sing it!!

    Hardcore is starting to become a little derivative itself, but in every genre there are always people who say "Me too!" or "I can do that!" still....

    Hardcore, depending on who you talk to, is basically taking punk energy and instilling it with loud guitars and less catchy tunes in favor of groove and energetic pieces.

    Its hard to describe the "scene" its something that you have to sort of jump into in order to feel. A lot of metal bands have rather hollow cookie-cutter songs about this, that, "ooo, I'm dangerous!" and all the like, also they usually take themselves too seriously and sound and act like they're the greatest thing on the face of the earth.

    Most hardcore bands, though, are more grounded and usually have a much more positve (and, for the most part, more coherent) message. In short,

    High squeeling repetitive guitar solo/riffs?=Metal

    Groove oriented, usually bass heavy music?=Hardcore.
  4. Alright can you list of some Hardcore bands... followed by some metal ones. Because I played "A New Level" by Pantera for my friend and he said it's Pantera (One of what I thought the defining metal bands) doing a hardcore song!?!? :rolleyes: I hate titles... they are so unnessicary. My favorite trick is attaching core to the end of anything. Rapcore, Emocore, Grindcore, Sledgecore, Funkcore, Bluegrasscore, (insert anything here)core. And I also enjoy my friends explanation of "Hardcore with Metal influence"... agg. Just list off some Hardcore bands followed by some Metal bands. Thanks.
  5. Jennifer


    Jul 31, 2000
    Erie, Illinois
    For me, the main difference is the vocal style. Not the words necessarily, just the way it's sung.
  6. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    being into all this stuff, i hope i'm accurate here in defining what's what. SMASH, since you're the man around here on metal and hardcore and all their ridiculous little sub-genres, feel free to correct me as i generalise.

    Botch, Himsa, Coalesce, Cave In, Isis.
    heaps more, but these are the ones off the top of my head right now.

    Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Soilent Green.
    i don't know what you mean by 'metal', but going on SMASH's post i'm assuming we're comparing death metal (and all the variables) to hardcore. so i listed a few of the better-known death/grindcore metal bands.
  7. Just my humble opinion on the matter..

    And for that matter..if you feel insulted by a post, you could always have asked me in a PM to delete it, instead of flaming me in public, which is in my opinion very annoying, ignorant and certainly offending.. :mad:

    having said that.. i have deleted my post. i think you know what to do with yours, thank you.
  8. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    reckon you should've referred to that sig of yours before posting your initial reply, dude :p
  9. LiquidMidnight


    Dec 25, 2000
    LMAO, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while, which is good cause I am getting sick from a bug and feel like crap. :)

    To me, the two main differences are the riffs and vocals.

    Metal has more complex riffing, usually incorporating single note runs with power chords. The vocals are wide variety and span from high pitched power metal vox to growly and screaming black and death metal vox.

    Hardcore has less complex riffs, usually based around power chords. It's more "groove" oriented. (not that metal isn't allowed to "groove" sometimes) The vocals are more or less screamed or grunted as compared to a death metal growl.

    Of course, I hate labels anyway. If I like something, I'll listen to it. :)
  10. the fact that some people get offended by other's opinions has got nothing to do with assumptions, thank you.

    and having said that.. i will not respond to any further posts, because it is not my intention to make fights.
  11. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    well, you did make a whole bunch of derogatory stereotypes (assumations, IMO) about musicians involved with metal and hardcore - and as one such musician, it kind of irked me to read that stuff too. but it's cool, i just made and ass out of you and me by assuming you were merely joking around. hope this was the case?
  12. c'mon man.. you should know it's impossible to insult me.. ;)

    but hey.. no bad intentions meanth.
  13. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    hey, no insulting on my part going down here! besides, you're DILDOBOX, TB's resident ganja-quaffing Netherlander :D all is well, dude. no offense taken, nor meant.
  14. SMASH

    SMASH Guest

    Jan 18, 2000

    Actually modern Hardcore has by far the more complex riffing overall (in general). The bands *Tones* mentions above are good examples.

    Allodo, as *Tones* said you posted offensive stereotypes as facts (different from opinions) and those stereotypes were both indeed ignorant and offensive and therefore I stand by my post. Frankly given your usual post quality that surprised me. And, *in my opinion*, you'll not gain credibility in musical commentary by outing yourself as a Cannibal Corpse fan. That's about as rude-imentary (sic) as it gets. :rolleyes: Though their bass player does impress.
  15. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    i'll say. Alex Webster is a phenomenal talent within that band, and does most (over 3/4) of the writing to boot (although this might be considered a negative by some :D).
    although somehow i gather that you're not much of a Death Metal fan, SMASH, i'd urge you to pick up a copy of CC's latest release "Gore Obsessed" - if only to dig Webster's sweet tapping licks on the track "Grotesque", and the deep grooves on the Metallica cover, "No Remorse" (secret track).
  16. SMASH

    SMASH Guest

    Jan 18, 2000
    I am a big fan of bands such as Suffocation, Wicked Innoncence, and Gorguts all of whom I frankly think transcend the genre's trapping such as repetitive parts, utterly juvenile lyrics and imagery, and lack of progression - of which CC is a main offender.

    While I know them to be decent individuals as I band I find the joke worn awfully thin and also thought they weer utterly terrible live and one of the very few bands I have ever walked out on.

    I just can't take a band even halfway seriously that ni a scary voice introduces songs like - and I quote - "This song is about kicking in a door and killing a family ... it's called F*****d With A Knife". Whoopty-doo. I would pay to see them **** themselves with a knife instead. Well ... no I wouldn't, but you get the idea.

    That's why I find the relatively positive/cerebral themes in Hardcore so refreshing. If it isn't a death metal band with their 3rd grade horror tripe it's a black metal band with their unholier-than-thou schtick. *Yaaawn*.

    Well, I'm off to go see Morbid Angel tonight !! :D
  17. Smash, could you please explain how "heavy punk" becomes a more technical, melodic and groove emphasived metal? I admit that I haven't been exposed to much hardcore, but from what I have heard, it's much more simple than metal. You are true about how metal has become redundant and therefore is slowly closing in on itself, but how does hardcore evolve from punk to an open-minded metal?

    oh yeah, and I can't believe you guys know who Himsa is! I thought that they were only a small time seattle band!
  18. LiquidMidnight


    Dec 25, 2000
    Well, the said fact is that a lot of metal heads (but not all, keep in mind) are still stuck back in the 80's, driving beat up Camero's and getting their hair cut into mullets. Sadly, I have found a lot of metal fans very close minded and not wanting change. (which sucks cause I like metal, and there are a lot of elitist associated with the genre, again, keep in mind I'm not talking about everyone) Most of the bands are just rehashing the same stuff from 15 years ago. *cough* Iced *cough* Earth *cough*
  19. frankencow150

    frankencow150 Guest

    Oct 17, 2001
    i dont listen to alot of metal.

    but ill try...

    hardcore-Refused,Sick of it All,Snapcase,Grade

    metal-gwar(more like funny metal!),uhhh i wont try because i know nothing about metal!

  20. I don't know about that. I heard some hardcore from my friends, and they were screaming there asses off, but it was hardcore. I think I have a better understanding though due to Dr. Smash's award winning speech, "Why Hardcore Whips the Llamma's Ass." You should have been there for the argument. It's just that all my friends are non-musicians except for a tromboner, so there were like, Hardcore is about the scene, which I can agree about, every genre has a scene, but you can't hear a scene on a TV. Alright I think I get it now. I have a question though, is most Nu (god I hate that) metal Hardcore? Like System of a Down and Korn... Slipknot sounds metal to me, and Staind's break the cycle sounds hard rock to me, Dysfunction sounds Hardcore... I don't know though.