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Hartke "Customer No-Service", need VX115 specs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by sb69coupe, Sep 29, 2004.


  1. sb69coupe

    sb69coupe

    Aug 9, 2004
    Raleigh NC
    Hey guys, I just got off the phone with a "customer service" rep at Hartke/Samson. I was looking for the sensitivity and frequency response figures for a Hartke VX115 speaker cabinet. I'm looking to add a 210 cab in parallel to the VX115 I'm currently using, and I wanted to know the measurements of the VX115 so I can determine which 210 cabinet may be a better match.

    So the fine enlightened customer no-service rep on the line informs me that they do not have those measurements. All he knows is that it's an 8 ohm cabinet with 300 watt power handling rating. I gently coax him along by asking "you guys designed and built this cabinet and you don't know the specs of the driver or the tuning of the enclosure?" He put me on hold and went off into the ether for about 5 minutes, only to return and state that they don't have that info.

    So, does anyone happen to have experience using this cabinet with an Avatar B210, or any other 210 cabinet? I'm not really interested in the Hartke aluminum cone cabs, they are just not the sound I'm looking for. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Shannon
     
  2. sounds like BS to me...they gotta have the info... I'd call and talk to someone else!
     
  3. paintandsk8

    paintandsk8 Pushin' my soul through the wire...

    May 12, 2003
    West Lafayette, IN
    I've seen that info before, it is online somewhere, but I can't remember where. My hartke aluminum 1x15 is 92 Db sensitivity and 35-8k frequency response.
     
  4. fcoda

    fcoda

    Jan 23, 2002
    Nanuet,NY
    I'm fairly sure that information can be found on the Hartke website .
     
  5. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Nope, no specs on the website, and although they DO offer a pdf of the "owners manual" for the cab, even THAT doesn't say what the specs are.

    Two things are possibly going on here:

    1) They truly don't know the specs, they just "plopped" some drivers into a cab that looks good to an uneducated consumer (their target consumer for the VX line, arguably) and never bothered to spend the time and $$ to spec it out.

    2) The specs are poor, and they don't want to publicize that fact.

    Either way, I'd recommend to EVERYONE to stay away from any cab who's manufacturer declines/refuses/fails to make the specs available to the consumer prior to purchase.

    FYI: I used Hartke cabs for several years . . and I have no axe to grind . . .
     
  6. fcoda

    fcoda

    Jan 23, 2002
    Nanuet,NY
    Oddly enough the website has the specs for Pro and Transported series and not the VX series.
     
  7. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Are the VX enclosures even made in the US? It's possible that they just buy a completed enclosure with their name on it...

    Maybe they're built in the same factory as the new Behringer bass cabinets :D
     
  8. danman

    danman

    May 18, 2004
    Philadelphia, PA
    hartke's stuff is now all being made in china from what I understand. or at least soon will be. As for the vx series.....I think they sound better than any of the other hartke cabs. I used to own a tp410 and a vx115. In my opinion the vx 115 is the best sounding cab hartke makes and easily the best thing you can get for 200 bucks.

    just my opinion.
    If you think it sounds good ......... it probably does sound good.

    You don't need specs to tell you what you are hearing.

    danman
     
  9. bigbeefdog

    bigbeefdog Who let the dogs in?

    Jul 7, 2003
    Mandeville, LA
  10. sb69coupe

    sb69coupe

    Aug 9, 2004
    Raleigh NC
    Hmmm. That UK site shows an aluminum cone driver in the pic of the VX115, but the US models have a paper cone driver and a horn. Not sure if they just have an incorrect pic, or if the cabinet is truly different in overseas markets. Notice that there are no specs on the VX410 listed below. I think that they have listed the XL115 as the VX115 by mistake.

    Danman, I agree, I like what I get from the cabinet and I think it sounds good for a 1x15. I'm looking for the specs to see how it may match up with an additional 2x10 cab to supplement and add some more punch. If it's grossly inefficient, then adding an efficient 210 in parallel will result in an unbalanced output between the cabinets.

    Shannon
     
  11. Melvin7822

    Melvin7822 Supporting Member

    May 11, 2004
    Broomfield, CO
    Whomever, you talked to at Hartke must've really sucked. I was able to get a diagram with specs attached in an e-mail no problem. I've since deleted the e-mail since I no longer needed the specs so I can't really remember the sensitivity although I can tell you that it is 100 or above. I also definitely remember that the lows go down to 40Hz on that cabinet. I'm gonna dig around to see if I still have the specs on here somewhere so I can give you a more accurate sensitivity figure.
     
  12. sb69coupe

    sb69coupe

    Aug 9, 2004
    Raleigh NC
    That would be great. I'll try calling them again tomorrow to see if I have better luck.

    Shannon
     
  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Hartke CS can't tell you what you want to know because they don't know; remember, these are minimum wage phone jockeys who are probably esconced in cubicles in Bombay.

    You can make a very educated guess what's in that box by the wattage rating and box price. I'd say it's similar to an Eminence Delta 15. Plugging the specs for that driver into WinISD with a box the same size as the Hartke you get an SPL of 101dB, with an f3 of 70 Hz, which is typical of the genre. A different driver may gain a lower f3 but does so at the expense of overall SPL, so the actual bottom end output wouldn't change.

    The high frequency limit of any speaker is more a product of the cone size relative to horizontal dispersion than on-axis response; a 15 is usable up to perhaps 800 Hz with a reasonable dispersion angle. Using a fifteen with a HF horn is just plain stupid, as you get a massive response hole between where the 15 stops and the horn kicks in.

    A ten is good up to about 2kHz before beaming sets in. If you want wide dispersion to higher frequencies eights would be best, but the perception that eights are too small (which is piffel- they only have to go down to 500Hz when you've got a fifteen handling the bottom) pretty much eliminates them from the market.

    If it was me in your situation I'd add a closed back Eminence Alpha 8MR midrange driver that would take over where the 15 leaves off and work up to where the horn kicks in. Put it in a small box to sit between your 15 and the head. Along with a proper crossover (Eminence PXB) it will cost you less than 100 bucks less the cabinet, which you could make from cardboard if you had to, since it's a closed back driver. You can get both at Parts Express.
     
  14. sb69coupe

    sb69coupe

    Aug 9, 2004
    Raleigh NC
    Bill, thank you so much for your reply. I was tweaking around on my setup last night at rehearsal and really do want to make a change to add some mids to the sound. I think I'm going to follow your advice and build a cabinet to house one of the 8" Eminence drivers that you suggest. The only suitable PXB crossovers that I could find was the PXB2-500 which has a 500Hz crossover point, or the PXB2-800 with an 800Hz crossover point. Which would you suggest? Also, would an L-pad be needed to help match the levels between the 8 and the 15?

    Thanks for the advice,
    Shannon
     
  15. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Great insightful post Bill... I think that we often forget to look at the big picture... or the cliche' can't see the forest for the trees.

    Makes perfect sense to use a sort of middle of the road 15 for a comparison. In all, such an exercise gives us an idea of what to expect, but actually hearing it (and comparing it to other cabs that one might be considering) will really tell the story.

    As for the location of Hartke CS...if they are off shore, the person that called me about replacement Al cone 10s is capable of doing the best imititation of a NY accent that I've heard in a long time!
     
  16. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You can go with either a 500 or 800 Hz high pass to the Alpha 8MR. The main problem is going to be having two separate boxes, and accounting for what's in the Hartke right now for a crossover to the HF horn. Open the Hartke up and take pictures of the innards, email them to me personally or post them so I can see what it has and then I can tell you what you'll need to wire it up. It would be nice if you could fit the 8MR into the existing box, but it looks too tight in the pictures of it.
     
  17. sb69coupe

    sb69coupe

    Aug 9, 2004
    Raleigh NC
    Well lo and behold, Hartke replied to my email with a spec sheet for the VX115. The crossover point between the 15 and the horn is 3.4kHz. They claim a 98dB 1w/1m sensitivity and frequency response range of 40Hz to 10kHz. I haven't had a chance to get inside the cabinet yet to take pics, but I will do so this weekend.

    The frequency response graph they show if pretty flat from 70Hz on up, but I seriously doubt that given the lack of midrange punch.

    Shannon
     
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That well may be so with an axial chart, one that measures the response dead-on the woofer axis. What they aren't showing you is what really counts, the off-axis response, which represents what you hear everywhere other than dead-on the woofer axis.

    The rule of thumb is that off-axis reponse is no longer useful when the radiating plane exceeds one wavelength across; a fifteen has a cone that is at best 13 inches across, which is a wavelength at 1040 Hz. The remaining 2.5 kHz until the tweeter kicks in is for all intents and purposes not being covered.

    An eight has a six inch cone, so dispersion is adequate up to 2300 Hz or so, a far better situation.

    What I need to see in the box is whether Hartke used a true crossover that works on both the woofer and tweeter, or just a high-pass filter on the tweeter alone. Also, depending on the topology of the filter for the tweeter it may be possible to
    lower the crossover point down closer to where the 8 will leave off. If you see any numbers on the crossover components write them down.