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HELP! Bizzare Schroeder Noise

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pablomigraine, Feb 26, 2006.


  1. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    Okay so I just had my Ashdown ABM 500 replaced under warranty ( lettering was rubbing off the face ) and I took it to the spot to test it out with my Schroeder 410. Now previously I could get to a very specific volume level before the amp would start to clip on an open B, specifically at about 2-3 o' clock on the volume knob. The new one seemed to be breaking up a lot sooner like at 10 or 11 o'clock. I suddenly realized that the subharmonizer was engaged full blast. Turned it off, everything went back to normal. After about a 5 hour rehearsal, I started to notice a REALLY bad noise coming from the cabinet. Kind of like the sound get when you hold a piece of paper out the window of your car on the freeway. Unless I played VERY gently I would get this sound anywhere on the B, E or A strings. This did not sound like clipping and it sounded as if it were coming from the "folded" part of the cabinet, as if it was a specific speaker..... ideas? If it isnt a bad speaker that means I've somehow damaged a brand new amp....., if it is a bad speaker, how do I tell which one?
     
  2. Sub harmonizer full blast... loud volume.... blown speaker IMO.
     
  3. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    I also believe that you have mortally wounded one (or more) of your speakers.
    I'd give Jorg a call and have him walk you through some diagnostics with your cab.
    Best of luck.
     
  4. buzzbass

    buzzbass Shoo Shoo Retarded Flu !

    Apr 23, 2003
    NJ
    The cab was fine before the new head, right ? Sounds like you may have barfed one or more of the 10s. Are they neos or standards ?
     
  5. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    ran some diagnostics. Explored the cab a bit. I've come to the conclusion its not the cabinet, but the head. I ran it thru another cabinet and its doing the same thing. the sound I was used to hearing before was just the speakers farting becuase the 575 watt amp wasnt putting out enough juice to hold on to the cone. This sound is wayyyyy different than that and despite my suspicions may just be the amp clipping. If this the case I'll be really miffed since I already had to have this head replaced once. I'm using the exact same settings as before, same levels, and I'm getting this BS. Anybofy have any experience with Ashdown amps clipping out? I'm running it like this: All instrument settings flat, amp input to where the hard B hits bring the VU meter into the red, shape engaged, no eq, volume at 1 O'clock. Should this amp be clipping out with no extra bass dialed in at 60% power?
     
  6. buzzbass

    buzzbass Shoo Shoo Retarded Flu !

    Apr 23, 2003
    NJ
    Doesn't that shape switch do the smiley faced EQ thing when engaged ? That may be something to look at. I don't know much about ashdown stuff, but you're welcome to bring your cab here and try any of my amp/power-amp setups, to help you eliminate things. Do you have another head, even a guitar head, that you could try ?
     
  7. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    taking the head to a shop nearby tomorrow to try with a few other cabinets to see whether I'm dealing with a defective amp or damaged cones.....stay tuned
     
  8. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    can you explain what this means?

    Thanks
     
  9. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    In other words, in my experience with 5 strings, speakers tend to fart out on hard Low B playing becuase the amp isnt giving it enough power. Real life example. I was running my Musicman 5 with all settings flat into a BBE Bmax-T with all settings at Noon, into one side of a power amp rated at 600 watts per side at 4 ohms, intyo a 4 ohm 410 cabinet. When playing open B, the speakers farted and sounded loose, with a drop in volume from open E notes. I switched the Power amp to Bridge/Mono mode which was rated at 1200 watts into 4 ohms, and the low B sounded clear and even. Think of it this way, the amp is using electrical current to hold on to the speaker cones and move them back and forth to create whatever frequency, when the amp is giving its all to move the speaker enough to accurately reproduce an open E, and an open B comes along, the speakers need roughly twice as much power to reproduce that frequency range, and the amp literally cant "keep a grip" on the cones..........

    Now after all my professorly nonsense I'll say that I still cant tell if my BRAND STINKING NEW Ashdown is clipping prematurely, or whether I've damaged my cabinet by the sound I'm getting since I dont have another amp / speaker cabinet with which to plug either into and find out who the culprit is.

    You guys tell me, I've closely inspected all the speakers, and there is no VISIBLE damage anywhere, but I get this noise with everything completely flat on the bass and the Ashdown, when the volume level goes even a little past Noon on a five string.....and this amp is a direct replacement of another identical Ashdown amp with which I could get clean sounds with flat settings with the volume knob ALL THE WAY UP. And it sounds like a piece of paper out the window of a car. This sound comes not in place of the note, but on top of it......sounds like the clean note is still there but with this horrible sound on top of it. And I've just discovered that turning the horn off reduces the noise some........

    ANYONE...............ANYONE...................?

    Anybody have any idea whats going on here?
     
  10. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    thanls for the expanation, although im not sure i understand it as Jorg told me my 1210 would work fine with my 300watt amp but anyway, thanks.
    It may not help but i think i had the same or similar problem with my MAG C-115 combo. with the master near or over midway and the bass slightly raised i would get a distortion that was more like a clipping. the volume would sound like it was compressed. i could go louder but i would get more distortion but it was like yours, on top of the notes. this was the reason i got my ABM as i had a lot of gigs and couldnt get it fixed in time. The speaker turned out ok as i have been using it with my ABM so im guessing its the power amp that is faulty.
    I will get it fixed soon though.
     
  11. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    I also may have connected the Ashdown to my Schroeder with a speakon cable wired for bridge / mono by accident. One end is labelled AMP and the other is labelled CAB. Could this have damaged either in any way?
     
  12. buzzbass

    buzzbass Shoo Shoo Retarded Flu !

    Apr 23, 2003
    NJ
    I'd be willing to bet that had something to do with it. My guess, and it's a guess, would be the amp. I would think the speaker should be able to hold the power, at least for a little while . Tell us this, did that cab ever sound good to your ears, or did you just assume it was the amp the 1st time ? The offer still stands to plug it into any of my stuff for comparisson.
     
  13. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    Oh yes, I've been using the Ashdown ABM 500 with the Schroeder Since december and been thrilled. My Ashdown was replaced because 1) I bought the amp as new but shortly discover it was a 2003 model that had been refurbished and given to mydealer as a new amp and 2) the lettering on the faceplate was wearing off.

    The rig always sounded good to me, and even sounded good for the first half of the practice. The possibility that I plugged it in with the Bridge / mono cable is an outside one, becuase I've made this mistake before, but I knew I had plugged in with the wrong cable because I didnt get any sound at all...maybe just thinking this time I reversed it or something....

    ps- where are you located?
     
  14. buzzbass

    buzzbass Shoo Shoo Retarded Flu !

    Apr 23, 2003
    NJ
    NJ, think exit 98 on the Parkway. We're fixing to have a small local GTG in the next few weeks. But, you're welcome to come try stuff anytime.
     
  15. i would guess the shape button scoopes the mids.
    the settings you described on the bmax is also mid scooped.
    less mids= much less clean headroom.

    -todd
     
  16. AlembicBob

    AlembicBob

    Dec 28, 2004
    MA, US
    did you try multiple basses? A failing bass battery can sound bad like that.
     
  17. GremlinAndy

    GremlinAndy

    Feb 15, 2006
    Good call mate.
    My batteries last long enough that everytime one goes I always think it's a piece of rig that has failed.
    Always comes as a surprise (pleasant) when I realise it's a duff batt...
     
  18. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    The new Ashdown, you know the one which was sent to replace the defective on I bought in December, was defective. We A/B'ed them at the shop and the "new" one absolutely crapped out clipping next to the old one.

    So now I've got a New "New" new Ashdown on the way, along with some free T-shirts. If this thing didnt sound so damn good I'd have done with it by now.

    Bottom line: Schroeder is fine and still kickass
     
  19. Very cool. Sounds like Ashdown is taking care of you, and it's a lot easier to swap out a head than remove and replace speakers. Hopefully the next one with be perfect. Let us know.
     
  20. rockstarbassist

    rockstarbassist Banned

    Apr 30, 2002
    The Woodlands, TX
    Endorsing Artist: HCAF
    I'm having a weird noise coming from my cab, but only at loud volumes. It sounds like something is rattling, but I can't find out where. It's only after I play my amp over half way that it does this. I had my singer put on some earplugs and sit in front and he says it's the top angled speaker. So, I'm thinking just popping open the back and seeing if anything is loose? I donno.
    Prob is, I can't really turn it up that loud in my apt or I'd blow a hole in the wall. It's only at gigs when I need the volume. Strange.