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Help me decide my new cabs!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by andruca, Feb 18, 2005.


  1. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    Hi! I'm in a crossroads now. By the end of the year I had volume issues with my rig for the first time after 7 years so I decided to face the complete renewal of my rig. I changed my head (a Hartke 3500 back then) for a pre power setup consisting of SansAmp RBI + multiband compressor + parametric EQ + Behringer EP1500 power amp (2x700W@2ohms/2x450W@4ohms). I didn't have a problem with the Hartke amp's headroom so this change was basically sound oriented. Now the thing is I can get a good sound with my current cabs (Hartke 4.5XL and 215XL) and in theory they can handle the power I have in my power amp, but I know from practice that they can't and they'd fart at barely past half their rated power (400W each) due to their mechanical limits being way lower than their thermical ones (this is a fact I hate about every speaker manufacturer, I mean, I don't care where the speaker melts, but I do indeed need to know where it starts to work unproperly, period!). An important fact is that I need to sound INSANELY LOUD whenever I need. I play nü-metal/funk-metal stuff and although I don't detune my 5ers, I still need absolutely thunderous THICK UNDISTORTED low end and perfect B-string reproduction. So I want to change my speakers. I use this setup with both a Stingray 5 and 2 Fernandes Gravity 5ers (that have proven very user friendly in terms of finding my sound easily live in any situation). My options for achieving my goals (undistorted loudness and low-end) are:

    a) 2 Schroeder 21012 cabs
    After reading the Schroeder mega thread and contacting Jorg via e-mail I got enthusiastic about his cabs. I don't know if they're the right thing for me and I'd like to find out. I got very impressed by such an amount of perfect reviews, all of them pointing out the "loud" and "good (even detuned) B-string" facts. These are very expensive for me given that I'm in Spain. Also I would be buying them eyes closed as I cannot try one before buying (unless somebody knows someone here in Madrid who owns one -I doubt it-). I know with Schroeders I would have to use a fraction of the power I use now to obtain the same volume. And at the same time they even handle more power (1200W RMS each) than any of the boxes I have now. The 1200W RMS is rather arguable. I sincerely think 2x10 plus 1x12 will no doubt fart at 600W (so RMS my a$$ :)) with a low-B, but despite that, if the cabs are THAT efficient I don't care for the extreme wattage farting point, as me and my whole band would be deaf several dBs before this "farting" level.

    b) 2 Warwick Terminator cabs
    1000W handling each (or 400+600 biamped), Eminence speakers (this gives some confidence too). About 2/3 the cost of the 2 Schroeders I want. With 4x15" I really doubt that there's any lack of low-end here so that is my main point for digging the Terminators. I could use one for medium gigs (for small ones I use a Peavey combo, only piece of gear I'll never sell in my life), and both for the big ones. I can test one of these any day. Sensitivity is the same as my Hartkes (99dB) but they can take more than double the wattage.

    Contrary to what you would think european brands (EBS, H&K, MarkBass, Hevo, Tech Soundsystems, etc.) are sometimes even more expensive here than in the USA (we're being miserably abused over here!) and I strongly refuse to be stealed at. So disregarding the power we apply to the cabs (I insist the amp's power is no limitation at all as I can have access to more powerful units at a laughable cost) and also disregarding weight and portability, which of these two is the most "ULT" (UNDISTORTED, LOUD, THICK) sounding of these cab setups?

    Thanks so much everybody and forgive the length of my thread!

    ANDRUCA
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    size and sensitivty the shroeders win hands down. not to mention the overwhelming positive reviews. IF you can swing it, don't be afraid to spend a little more money. that's better than wishing you had.
     
  3. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    Thanks Mike! So, no matter how much power it takes (at maximum possible SPL ever), you're telling me two Schroeders 21012 are capable of producing more volume (maintaining low-end) than two Terminators? Not that I doubt it, just making sure :). Thanx!

    ANDRUCA

    edit: changed "will be louder" for "are capable of producing more volume"
     
  4. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    yeah. the 21012's are rated at 104 dB vs the terminator's 99 dB that's a huge difference. you'll need 4x the watts to make the terminators sound as loud.
     
  5. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    Perfectly clear (and loud) fact, Mike! :) Thanks! More opinions anybody?

    ANDRUCA
     
  6. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    I've heard stories of the terminators getting mushy and lost easily in the mix.

    Despite the volume, how much are you looking at the tone/sound of the cab? You've picked two very different sounding cabs. I'm kind of in the same boat, i need something loud, big low end etc, yet also need to be able to cut through.. right now i'm looking at 412's, particularly Aguilar and Mesa. I've been e-mailing Jorg too (I live in australia) and the only thing is he uses FedEx, making his cheaper cabs not so cheap anymore (His 21012 ends up to be more than an aguilar 412 if both are imported, though i don't think i will import an aguilar because of possible warranty issues). So you might want to take that into mind if your looking at $$.

    I don't think you'd be dissapointed with the Schroeder though, I don't think I would either, i'd just like to hear one before buying... has anyone anywhere got any sound clips?
     
  7. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    I don't doubt I'll cut more with Schroeders, but the thing is will I still make the walls shake with Schroeders? (and I definitely don't mean being muddy). Thanks!

    ANDRUCA

    P/S: I asked Frank Martin (fellow TBer) about this (he had them shipped to Austria and I need them to be shipped to Spain) and he had it delivered for less than $300 (I know it's still not what i'd call cheap, but...).
     
  8. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Hmmm, that's allright. He had me quoted in the 500-600 area from memory.
     
  9. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i'm sure the shroeder megathread will give you hours of entertainment. soundclips of a speaker cab will give you a little bit of an idea, but remember, you're listening to it thru yet another set of speakers, as an mp3 it will not be a completly accurate reproduction, etc.
     
  10. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Are there sounds clips of schroeders in the mega thread? Know what page roughly... lol. I can't be bothered sifting through 60 pages again.
     
  11. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i touched on this in another thread. soundclips are useful up to a point. the basstasters soundclips of preamps and basses are pretty cool, but those are "electrical" devices rather than "mechanical" ones. mp3 type soundclips arent as accurate as cd quality, and most relavant, a soundclip of a cabinet is highyly colored by the microphone used and by the speakers used for playback. so, IMO, a soundclip of a cabiniet isnt going to tell you much. ;)
     
  12. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Sorry I was a bit busy nowadays and didn't notice this thread...

    As for the shipping costs: that was only a small box, the 1210, of which the weight was only 47lbs + packaging, Jörg said that's around 64 lbs.

    USPS website is:
    http://www.usps.com/

    **EDIT**
    Please ask Jörg about shipping. It seems USPS has a weight limit of 70lbs...
    Maybe there are other ways, though, like Business shipping. Jörg's friend at the postal service will surely know what can be done.
    (And BTW I don't think you'll be needing two 21012s... even one will blow you off your feet IMO :ninja: )

    Good luck!
     
  13. bassjam

    bassjam

    Aug 2, 2004
    dfw
    Lakland Basses,Genz Benz
    another vote for the schroeders.the 21012 cab is a great sounding cab.i went with two of the smaller cabs for portability and to take one on smaller gigs.
     
  14. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    OK, guys! No more debating on these. I had already read the Schroeder megathread but I wanted to be specifical as to the low end thing. Now I'll start saving some more. Thanks everybody!

    ANDRUCA

    edit: I also did something this weekend that changed things a little. I took the casters on my 2x15" off and it sounded way better (better low-end and projected better too) so I was able to start from flat EQ again (without rolling off mids and also without boosting sub-lows as I was doing previously -I'm dead flat on the RBI and just add some "glassyness" in the 10-12KHz with the parametric EQ-). This will help until I get the money for the Schroeders :).