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Help me get this delay sound on a time factor

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by nextdimension, Aug 2, 2012.


  1. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    I've been using a boss ME-50B for a while and I've figured out this cool delay effect where you turn the feedback way up and then play with the rate knob with your toe, moving it around the range of about 200ms and 0ms. Now I've been looking for a while for a pedal that can get this effect by using an expression pedal. It's important that the pedal can go all the way down to 0ms. I was recommended the Time Factor and that seems to be the only pedal I can find that has that range of delay rate and has an expression port. But I can't seem to get it to do what I want. So I made a little video because I can explain what I'm hearing all day but you really just got to hear what I'm talking about. So check it out.
     
  2. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Or do any of the pedal builders out there know how to make a pedal that would do what I'm trying to do?
     
  3. Do you have both delays enabled on the TF? It sounds kind of like it in the video. Since you're already in the realm of "unusual" delay sounds, it's a little hard to tell from the clip. If so, turn one of them off (delay time to 0 maybe? or mix?).

    I don't have a TF any more, but it also has some extended parameters for each delay mode (on the X and Y knobs, if I recall). I'd be wary of those too for starters.

    Since from your description, the delay on the Boss isn't any kind of special model, any delay pedal should be able to get close to what you're doing there. I'd start by getting the two pedals to sound close with a more "normal" setting and then start trying again.

    Let me know how it goes!
     
  4. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    I only have delay A enabled. It gets sounding too jumbled when I have both delays going. The main problem I'm getting is that when I move the expression pedal to sweep the delay rate from 150ms to 0ms is that instead of the delays getting all sweped together and sped up, they just kinda fade away. With one setting I got close but I couldn't get all the weird modulation setting to turn off and at 0ms instead of having that singular high pitch on top of low pitch, the high pitch had some kind of phaser effect that I couldn't get ride of. I can't seem to get it to make that extreme sweeping sound without it feedbacking like crazy as it gets close to 0ms.
    Any regular old delay will get close to what I'm looking for but I haven't been able to find one that goes all the way down to 0ms and has an expression input. The closest I've found was the DD7 it has a setting that will go to 0ms put only up to 30ms so it doesn't make a very extreme sweep.
     
  5. bludog

    bludog

    Apr 3, 2012
    Brooklyn 11217
    I know this doesn't exactly help you with the Time Factor, but... if you were up for it, you could add a Boss DD-7 and set the exporession for the rate knob. Then you could basically use it just for that application and it would take up relatviely little space compared to ME-50B. It's still two pedals but at least it's smaller and you could get the best of both worlds.

    Just a thought... best of luck finding what you need.

    EDIT: You can plug into the alt input on the DD-7 to get longer delay times from the same settings. Look into how long of times though as I'm not sure.

    PS- Started writing this before you posted the above reply, but still somewhat relavent with double delay time note.
     
  6. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Hmm I'm gonna have to look into that. Because that would really be awesome if I could just extend the delay range on the DD7. Because I've already tried that pedal out and it definitely gets the sweep and scream at 0ms I'm looking for but it just didn't have the range I wanted.
    Thanks for that bit of info
     
  7. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Ok I'm looking into this. I'm not really sure what your talking about. Can you elaborate more on that?
     
  8. Ron Now

    Ron Now

    Sep 3, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Endorsing Artist: Fuzzrocious Pedals
    I believe what they are talking about (at least how it works on a DD-6) if you plug your bass into input A and then out from output B it will increase the delay time available.

    Again , I'm not sure if it works the exact same way on a DD-7 but I know that it would give you a longer delay time on the DD-6
     
  9. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass

    Sep 14, 2010
    analog delays tend to get that sound.
    some bosses do it, some dont, depends on what model or what setting.

    The Time Factor is most likely digital delay so sometimes shifting the delay time wont give you the liquid effect your looking for.

    "Liquid" being the name me and my friends call it. Over the years whenever new delays came out and we thought about buying them. We would go to the music store and test them to see if they were "liquid" some did some didn't. Some would do it but were never as liquid as a good old analog delay.

    Anyhoo I got a hardwire delay pedal and none of the settings were liquid, except for what they called analog mode.

    So depending on how many functions/models or whatever the time factor comes with, try using one or ones that are suppose to emulate analog delay.

    I believe it has something to do with non destructive sound or memory blah blah ...I forget the name.

    Basically if you were to make a sound at 200ms delay with a certain amount of feedback, the repeats would continue for a certain amount of time. Then if you were to change the delay time the sound would change and the repeats would change in a plain jane single analog delay line.

    Newer pedals have a function were if you make a sound at 200ms then make another sound at 150ms, it keeps repeating the previous sound at 200ms, and also will start creating the new sounds at 150ms. so then the sound is no longer liquid sounding, because all new sounds will start on a new point and not be ripped apart like you want them to.

    Same thing, I forget what they call it but, if you turn a delay off and you had alot of feedback, the big swell will just cut off and make it obvious the delay turned off. All the delay sound just dies instantly when turned off.

    Newer pedals allow the last signal played before you turned of the delay, to repeat out according to delay and feedback settings, and then no longer effect new signal coming in. this allows the feedback swell to die out more smoothly than just get cut straight off.

    All very cool things, unless your trying to get a liquid delay similar to the old school analog delay.
    so look for funtions such as this in the time factor...and turn them off.

    Getting that crazy warble effect is causing a pitch shift effect from delay time, and is basically what a pitch shifter is, except the rate is being turned much faster, by a sawtooth LFO and ping pongs back in forth between 2 delay lines. to capture the sound and store it , and to pitch shift the sound that has already been collected.
     
  10. alec

    alec

    Feb 13, 2000
    Perth, Australia
  11. escaraBAJO

    escaraBAJO

    Apr 24, 2000
    Digitech Timebender?
     
  12. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Thank you for all that info, that is really helpful. I'm gonna look into all that today.
    As far as the 3rd hand goes, that was the first thing I tried. I don't know if you've ever tried it but it was a complete piece of crap. It's run by a rubber band thats glued onto the little knob. The first time I hooked it up to my pedal and put my foot on it the break cable that hooks to the pedal doubled up on itself instead of spinning and the rubber band snapped.
    I looked into the Timebender but it only goes down to 10ms, I might still try it but the effect I'm going for seems to also depend on being able to go all the way down to 0ms. At 10ms there is still a vibrating delay sound, which is cool but I like to be able to take it all the way down so that the high pitch delay is directly on top of the clean tone.
     
  13. escaraBAJO

    escaraBAJO

    Apr 24, 2000
    I'm interested in this too but in a slightly different way. I too have the ME-50B and from time to time I play with the same thing you're doing in your video but what I use the most is the pitch shifting (kind of a scratch sound) in the longest time setting when you move the time knob back and forth.
    I've been looking for an individual pedal that can replicate this but as BogeyBass said apparently it is not a consistent feature.

    I thought this sound is a "glitch" unique to the boss multieffect but maybe some other pedal can do it.
     
  14. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Well I tried a few things and got a little closer but still not quite. I tried the analog delay and that got the closest but the two problems I had where that the sweeps seemed to lag behind, like I would turn the knob and then it would sweep instead of sweeping while I turned the knob. Also the feedback had a strange phaser type effect going on instead of a crisp ring like I get with the boss. I posted this question on eventides forum and sent eventide an email so we'll see if I can figure this out. I'm gonna look into the DD7 some more and see if that'll work. If not I may have to get someone to build me a custom pedal. I saw this pedal at a shop the other day that they said was made by a local builder, it was an expression pedal that had a built in delay and you could adjust the rate or the feedback with it. Cool idea but it didn't work very well, the pedal wasn't very responsive and it had a lot of feedback. But I think if it was done right that would be perfect to just have the delay built right into the expression pedal.
     
  15. nextdimension

    nextdimension

    Jan 30, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Well got a reply from Eventide, doesn't look like I can get what I'm looking for with them. Too bad, it really is a cool pedal and I may buy it again in the future but it looks like I'm gonna be returning it. Also looked into the DD7 and it doesn't look like it's gonna quite do what I want either hooking it up input A to output B. So it looks like I'm gonna be on the search for a pedal builder who can make me up something special. Anyone got someone they can recommend? I've never had a custom pedal built, but I'm willing to spend the money to get exactly what I want. I'll probably post a second thread about this to generate more response.
     
  16. sunbeast

    sunbeast Supporting Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Los Angeles, CA
    You could try the EHX Deluxe Memory Boy or Deluxe Memory Man with Tap Tempo. They are both analog delay pedals with digital control, and any of the knobs can be set to expression control. I think they list the lowest available delay time as 30ms, but I am fairly sure it can be dialed in to do an approximation of what you are attempting- you could always give it a try at Guitar Center or elsewhere. You do have to be careful with the feedback though, as they can get into crazy loud oscillations pretty quickly in my experience. I had the Deluxe Boy and found it awesome for kinda weird and extreme effects, though I found the plain old delay to be kinda "blah" sounding. I've tried the newer Deluxe Memory Man with Tap Tempo in a local store (they added the digital control of the Memory Boy to something resembling the classic Memory Man circuit) and its straight delay sounds much more pleasant to me, but unfortunately the price tag is out of my budget for something I probably wouldn't use very often. They are making a Deluxe Man with half the available delay time that is cheaper and still has a similar tone to the more expensive one, but for my uses the longer delay is much preferable as the repeats get nastier the longer the delay time is set, in other words the big guy stays cleaner longer (the downside of analog delays- well actually can be an upside to a point depending on your needs...).
     

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