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Help regarding frequency response of cabs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by danstefl, Jan 19, 2013.


  1. Afternoon everyone - I couldn't find previous posts that helped me in understanding my current situation.

    I currently play through an Ampeg SVT6Pro and an Ampeg PR410HLF -

    Amp
    750 watts at 8 ohm
    1100 watts at 4 ohm

    Cab
    600 watts/1200 peak at 4 ohm

    Needless to say I have blown the drivers, more than one. When one driver blows the cab stop working due to the way it's wired (I lack education regarding wiring). It's currently at the shop again having (2) drivers replaced, last time I had to have (1) driver replaced. That leaves me with (3) new drivers and (1) orig. I cannot afford to replace the original driver at this time.

    I'm at a crossroad of having my cab fixed, touching it up and putting it up for sale. I'm looking to get an 8ohm cab that can handle the power and then adding an extension cab down the road to take advantage of all the power available.

    I have been looking at the Ampeg PF410HLF since it has a lot of good reviews and a really nice tone to it. I have tried one in a music store but to me that doesn't represent how it would sound in "the mix" with the rest of the band.

    Right now I cannot wrap my head around the Frequency response difference of the cabs and if the difference will translate into my tone when I'm in the mix. The PR410 half goes all the way down to 33hz while the PF410 goes to 55hz. I cannot find a cab with a similar low end response that also covers the high end as clear as I want it.

    Are there any comparable cabs, with similar tone that would fit what I'm looking for? I don't consider myself an "Ampeg guy" but I do like the tone very much I have gotten out of the PR410 and SVT6 combo I have. I"m not willing to give up the crystal clear highs and booming lows I get, but I'm not continuing to blow out drivers due to my poor job at power matching my cab and head.

    Any and all input would be awesome. I'm shopping as we speak and looking to pull the trigger on a purchase in the next few weeks.

    D
     
  2. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004
    Without charts, the stated frequency response is useless

    If you actually want all that bass is subjective. Look at the discussions here on aftermarket High Pass Filters. Highly recommended to save drivers.

    Headphones can be pretty flat. Put some on and mess with EQ, like a graphics eq plugin on a PC and see where the frequencies are that you actually hear. In nearly every case, low low is not as important as harmonics - i.e. 70-80hz response will sound like Bass.

    There are also Ear Training sites that will take you through the frequencies
    http://www.audiocheck.net/engineertraining_bands_difficult.php
    There is several others
     
  3. I do have a cab recommendation for you. It will preserve your lows and highs, and give you the power handling and volume you need. Pm me if you are interested.
     
  4. R Baer

    R Baer Commercial User

    Jun 5, 2008
    President, Baer Amplification
    I don't think your problem is matching heads with cabs. The Ampeg is a good cab. The problem is asking more from your cabs than they are capable of delivering. There's no reason you can't use a 1000watt amp with a single 10" cab, as long as you don't put more power into that cab (with the volume knob) than it can handle. Before most drivers blow, they will typically give you some warning signs, namely distortion. You have to learn to tell when they are reaching their limits and back off the volume. Also, pushing a driver past it's maximum excursion has a lot to do with technique, as well as wattage. I've heard guys at NAMM play though our cabs at very high levels and have it sound beautiful, while the next guy up farts out the cab at half the volume. Technique and EQ play a big part in the overall picture. If you are playing a 5 string, hitting the strings very hard and boosting the low end, you are placing a much greater demand on your drivers than a 4 string player who plays with a lighter touch and leaves the amp flat. If you can't get enough volume from the cab you have without blowing drivers, then you are simply asking more volume from that cab than it is capable of producing and you need to look at either adding another cab, or switching to a larger cab, like a 610.

    I agree that you should look into something like Fdeck's high pass filter. A steep rolloff down around 35Hz to 40Hz can really take a load off your drivers. And, don't be fooled into thinking that you need a cabinet with frequency response down to 31Hz, just because your bass puts out those frequencies. Your cab's ability to reproduce those frequencies is no where near as important as it's ability to reproduce frequencies in the 60Hz to 100Hz range. That's where the real meat and potatoes of your low end is.
     
  5. Gearhead17

    Gearhead17 Supporting Member

    May 4, 2006
    Mount Prospect, IL
    ""Right now I cannot wrap my head around the Frequency response difference of the cabs and if the difference will translate into my tone when I'm in the mix. The PR410 half goes all the way down to 33hz while the PF410 goes to 55hz. I cannot find a cab with a similar low end response that also covers the high end as clear as I want it."""

    The previous posts are right on the money. Especially the one about EQ points and what frequencies actually sound like.

    Just because a bass cab CAN go low, does not mean you NEED to go that low. Believe me, with my 5 string bass, I used to be concerned with getting the low end completely covered with a bass cab. Over time I realized that getting good response at 30hz was USELESS in a band mix. The 80-300hz range is where the bass becomes "bass".

    You are talking about booming lows and crystal clear highs in your sound goals, just how much are you boosting the low end and what frequencies are you boosting?

    I suggest selling your Ampeg cab. Also, the 6 PRO is a fine head. I think this is a matter of EQ more than anything. Two cabs might be even better for your situation.....
     
  6. cableguy

    cableguy Supporting Member

    Jun 4, 2009
    North Bend, WA
    Cmon CL, Say it.......Say it.....

    Or as Foz will say, I dare you......
     
  7. Tuned

    Tuned

    Dec 6, 2007
    If you're blowing drivers in an Ampeg 410 then your desire for bottom end is unrealistic. Bass guitar cabs are not subwoofers. If you want an abundance of bottom end then you need a subwoofer to do it. It's a pretty expensive way to get your bandmates and sound techs to tell you to turn the f*ck down btw.
     
  8. One has only to look at my avatar...
     
  9. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I feel Ampeg does themselves a disservice by only posting the -3db point of the new PF cabs on their website. But if you look at the manual, you'll find that the -10db point of the PF410hlf and the PR410hlf match up pretty darn close, as in low 30hz area. Not to say they will sound identical, but those two PF cabs have much lower response than 55hz.

    Also, I agree with the dude who said you don't have a head/cab matching problem but an itchy volume knob finger. Here's a little hint: regardless of what the company tell you the wattages are, if your cab sounds like it may explode, it will. Keep your volume below that point at all times or get used to buying replacement speakers. Personally, I think if you need to be that loud (another hint: in all likelihood, you don't), you should get an 810. The 810e doesn't go as low as the 410hlf cabs, but it'll take a lot more, sound a lot louder with the same volume/tone settings, and really, I'd debate whether we need all that low end response anyway.
     
  10. The mismatch is between your enthusiasm and the capability of the cab. Mainstream cabs don't handle unbridled kilowatt amps solo.
     
  11. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Agreed with all above. The 6Pro is an awesome amp, but you have 2 problems. 1) not enough spkr cab, and 2) too much low end in your eq'ing. Try CUTting the lows, and boosting the mids, but first, sort out your spkr cab issue. Going from one 410 to another, will not get you any more useable volume. You need a bigger cab, and to not worry over the frequency ratings.
     
  12. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Feb 25, 2021

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