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Help/Thoughts on speakers

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by FuzzMike, Aug 22, 2012.


  1. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    Hey guys, I'm a guitar player looking for some help for a buddy...

    My bass player is looking for new speakers since his old Epifani blew up recently. I'm looking for some feedback on Faital speakers and thought that maybe someone could share some info here. He's now using an Epifani UL501 with older Epifani 4x10 + 1x15 cabs and is looking for something that works/sound perfect on those cabs. Apparently, he's not fond with newer Epifani speakers (?).

    Edit: If you would like to recommend any other brands, you're welcome to do so.

    Any info/help is much appreciated. Mods: Sorry if this is on the wrong forum.

    Cheers,

    FuzzMike
     
  2. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Faital in general is high quality stuff, they don't really have a budget line so to speak.

    On bass, the box design they're in plays at least as big a part in the sound as the drivers used. Just throwing some in the box may get lucky and work out well, but also has a pretty good chance of sucking.

    Epifani likely used an OEM model, which means a bit of a tweaked version of a common speaker. Getting some more information is what's needed before anyone could make any worthy suggestions.

    If we can determine the internal size of the box and what frequency the ports are tuned to, as well as some general tone/performance descriptors from Epifani users here, would go a long way towards getting a happy ending.

    The box size/port tuning has a huge effect on how the lowend will sound, and how much power it can take, which is of utmost importance to bass players. The box effect ends at about 200-300hz. Middle and upper response is dictated more by the rest of the drivers performance. "scooped/warm" vs. "aggressive/bright", etc.

    Including the word "Epifani" in your thread title should help attract the right attention to your issue here.
     
  3. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    will33, thanks for the info. I'll try to get those measures...



     
  4. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Simple tape measure size of the inside of the box is what's needed, as well as the inside of the ports. Diameter and length(depth/how far front to back) if they're round. Or length, width and depth if they're rectangular or triangular.

    That's a place to start. Also general tone descriptions your bass player likes, power of amp used, type of music, size of typical venue, whether or not he has support from the PA, any pedals that are a consistent part of his tone, whether or not he plays 4 strings exclusively or needs good response from a low B, doubles on upright or not, etc. More info is always better.

    Attracting some Epifani users to your thread would also be valuble.
     
  5. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    The bass and lower midrange frequencies that are sort of the "meat-n-potatos" of the bass sound are what's affected by the box. The middle and upper frequencies are what give us our tone flavors and "colors".
     
  6. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    If Epifani still offees replacements for his cab, that would obviously get him basically a new cab. If he needs something else that can handle more power without blowing, and keep a similair tone as he likes, that's where all this other stuff comes in.

    His usual eq settings ahoukd be included as well. Boosting low bass eats up a speakers power handling fast. Oftentimes, the compromise is to boost the next knob up the eq band for more "fatness", and maybe even reduce the lowest bass control to reduce stress on the speakers. Lowend makes them move back and forth really far.
     
  7. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    Unfortunately, Epifani doesn't carry the exact replacement anymore. That would have solved everything in a sec.

    I'll gather all the info and will post it today or tomorrow.

    Thanks.
     
  8. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    Ok, here are the cab specs:

    Inside dimensions-
    Epifani T-410 8 ohms 800W cab - 17"d X 21 1/2"w X 24 1/2"h Ports - (2) 9 1/2" X 3 1/8"
    Epifani T-115 8 ohms 400W cab - 17"d X 21 1/2"w X 20"h Port - (1) 8" X 5"

    3/4" plywood construction.

    We mostly do med/large venues. Stadiums 5/6 times a year - PA support is always present. He doesn't record with that rig, so we're looking for something that withstands the road with excellent power handling.

    He uses the EQ flat, maybe cuts a bit of high and adds a bit of low end, depending on the venue...but mostly flat as he likes the sound of his bass without any eq.

    Our music is basically rock - not heavy. Edit: We also have ballads, and stuff...

    Thanks.

    FM
     
  9. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Cool, that's enoigh to get going. Another consideration is budget. There's a lot of nice drivers out there. When you add up 4 of them, you're in a price range where you could be looking at other cabs too. Going the driver replacement route might get you a tone/power handling combination you might not be able to find in a "store bought" cab though. Can look through a few drivers and then do some comparisons.

    The 15 is going to be the weak link in real-world power handling...unless you turn it into a real, actual high excursion subwoofer with no mids or topend.
     
  10. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    We're not looking for the most expensive speakers, but neither tied to a budget if the speakers are good enough.

    Yeah, I understand on the 15"...that one doesn't have to be the best of the best, just a good driver.
     
  11. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    Bump for help.
     
  12. Your question was pretty much answered.

    Its not really effective to just dump good speakers into any old box. The box is designed and tuned to the speakers, not the other way around. Add in to the fact that the cost of "Good" drivers will put you in the range of a better used cab.

    Go find one cab that works for your tone. Then get a second one. You will get more predictable results matching your cabs.
     
  13. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass

    Sep 14, 2010
    4x10 + 115 is an outdated design

    Sell them to the next victim
    and use a 2x12 or 2x15
    using better speakers

    there is plenty of good higher cost 10's and 15's
    but installing them into a 4x10 is a waste of time.

    not saying that to hurt your feelings, investing in better speakers is a great idea, but bolting them into a mismatched cabinet is not.

    best investment would be higher quality fullrange neos.
    again 2x12 or 2x15
     
  14. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Yep. running that configuration maximizes the chances of several things, including damage from over excursion (of not one but both cabs), and possible tonal difficulties in the room. Combined with putting speakers in a cab that wasn't designed for them further lessens your chances of a positive outcome.
     

  15. Then ditch the mismatched cabs :rollno:

    Terrible combination :meh:
     
  16. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Sorry, man. Way too much crap goin' on over here...didn't have time to look into this. Still need to sift through PM's and delete a bunch too.
     
  17. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Every single person that wrote in this thread since the last time I looked at it knows what they're talking about/knows what they're doing. The advise is solid.

    Most 410's, and a lot of 15's for that matter, aren't too far off from each other in terms of box size although tuning may vary. There are nice drivers out there that would work well loaded in these cabs, but they won't sound just like his old Epifani's. If he wants that tone back, best thing to do would be see if he can get his blown drivers re-coned. That'll basically give him new speakers just like the old ones, and be cheaper too. Then, if he needs more real-world power handling and output, ditch the 15 and replace it with another 410.
     
  18. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    Got it, thanks for the info. I'll forward it to my bass guy.

    Cheers.
     
  19. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Can persue the replacement route if re-cones are not available, but I wouldn't want to recommend $800-$1000 worth of drivers he might not like the tone of if he's that particular about his older Epifanis.
     
  20. FuzzMike

    FuzzMike

    Aug 8, 2012
    I can't recall exactly what happened with the speakers but I think the ohms were going up and down like crazy when measured with a meter, that happened to all 4x10 spkrs and ended in a blown SVT4. The cones were fine, I think.

    We're also trying to find more info on the new Epifani spkrs.

    Thanks.
     

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