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HELP!! Very new to using preamps w/power amps

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by QUSP, Sep 13, 2002.


  1. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    I am lacking power like crazy. So naturally i wanted to beef up my rig. I ordered the Eden Navigator Preamp with the WT-1000 Power Amp. Im thinking this should do the trick right? Well I dont quite know how to use one with the other. Anyone with knowledge on the relationship between preamps and power amps PLEASE RESPOND. I need all the help I can get. I wanna know how to get the loudest and clearest sound on stage withought distortion. (distortion is one of my main issues) I currently own the WT-800. Very nice amp, but i just need more power. I own the 410XLT, 210XLT and 115XLT. So in using the Navigator with the power amp, whats the best way to hook up everything and be as loud and clear as i wanna be. Master volume and gain settings also and issue. Where should they be in order for me to get the best out of my rig. Sorry for such a long thread, but i really wanna know why things work the way they do.
     
  2. The preamp is the brains of the outfit. It's where you'll plug your bass into and it's where all the tone shaping and voicing is done. Tone, EQ, compression, effects, etc are all handled by the preamp. The preamp plugs into the power amp and it's the power amp's job to take the signal from the preamp, make it LOUD and then feed it to the speakers.

    In your particular case, to get the maximum LOUD out of the components you have at hand, I'd recommend bridging the power amp. Bridging is when you combine the left and right channels of the power amp to make it act like one big amp. The manual with your WT-1000 will show you how it's done. The speaker arrangement I'd use, and I'm sure we'll get differing opinions on this, is your 410XLT and 210XLT daisy chained together, provided that they're both 8ohm cabs of course. This arrangement will throw the full 1000 watts from the power amp into the two cabs which will be divided equally among them. The 115XLT I'd leave at home and use for practice, it's a good cab too so don't use it for target practice. :)

    Anyway, I think that set up will give you the most overall oomph and the most balanced sound.
     
  3. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    Thanks. That was some much needed info. Just out of curiosity, why wouldnt u combine the 410 and 115? Also, what about settings for gain and master volume. Which should be lounder? Gain or master volume?
     
  4. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    thanks alot. Im really big on tone and clarity so i strive for the best.
     
  5. Because we're shooting for the biggest bang per watt and this is where speaker efficiency comes into play. The 210XLT is rated at 104db SPL (sound pressure level), the 115XL is rated at 100db SPL. Of the two speakers, the 210XL will be louder than the 115XL with an equal amount of power applied. Also, The 410XLT is rated at 105db SPL, I believe, so the 210 and 410 boxes are a closer match sensitivity wise.
     
  6. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    thanks again. Got another question. Would it be too much to use the Navigator w/Power Amp and just the 210XLT by itself without the 410XLT?
     
  7. Not enough power with a WT-800???? Wow. How loud are you guys and how do you use your amp? I'd think that bridging your WT-800 into your 8 ohm 410XLT would be plenty loud assuming that your 410 is 8 ohms.
     
  8. be careful....

    read the manual or look at the back of the power amp.

    when bridged, eden may specify an 8ohm load. if you 'daisy chain' (parallel) 2 of your 8ohm cabs, you will load the amp with only 4 ohms.

    (especially considering the high levels you are using) this can cause your amplifier to run very hot and go into thermal shutoff.

    if they say 4ohms is ok for bridged mode with the amp, you're ok to 'daisy chain' or parallel (providing both of your cabs are 8 ohm)

    i'd hate to see you go to the next gig, kick up the big juice, just to have your shiny new electronics go dead on you.
    ;)
     
  9. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    Well i play for a dancehall reggae band. And when i have to start competing with the drummer or keyboard player, I get alot of distortion. Its really uncomfortable not being able to play as loud as u want. And yes, i do bridge the WT-800 with the 410XLT's and its still not enough. (unless im doin something wrong and to my knowledge everything is hooked up right)
     
  10. Ah. I think I get it now! Also could be an EQ issue: The over-use of the magical enhance knob or you and the keys are competing for the same sonic space. One of the reasons I left my last gig was because I couldn't for the life of me get the keyboard player to understand that he was overtaking my frequency range. The enhance scoops the mids and if the knob is cranked it muddies your tone.

    Don't take my posts as being too critical. It's just that you are spending alot of coin for 200 more watts. It will kinda suck if your new amp doesn't solve the problem.
     
  11. Hmmm....just out of curiosity, what gauge speaker cord are you using?
     
  12. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    Critical is good because i need all the help i can get. My enhace knob is turned up right before the halfway point. Do u suggest thats too high? And yes alot of dough is being spent for 200 xtra watts. But it also a b-day present from a group of family. So i dont think ill be hurting too bad. Do u have any suggestions on EQing with the WT-800? I like alot of bottom and treble/highs. Not too much mids. Similar to the Marcus Miller tone.
     
  13. So you're going with the basic "smiley face" EQ. That setting gobbles up a lot of power right there and 10 inch speakers are pretty midrangey for that kind of an EQ setting. You might be happier with a 2x10, 2x15 arrangement. Anyway you can borrow a good 2x15 cab and see if that does the trick?
     
  14. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    i dont know anyone that has 2 15's. And i sure dont wanna invest in them either. Maybe im hookin it up all wrong. When i bridge the 410's, i go banana to banana bridged mono from the WT-800 into the cabinet. That is right isnt it?
     
  15. My suggestion would be to boost your frequencies less as you turn your volume up. Your enhance setting isn't extreme but more than what I would use when I had my Eden gear. The max I would set it at was 9 o'clock. I liked to give myself a few db's of boost in the low mids and that's about it. Do you boost your lows on you Lakie's onboard EQ? I tend to run mine flat and make changes on the fly as needed. Then again, I play primarily rock and R&B....
     
  16. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    The bass on the Lakland is usually turned all the way up. But if i dont have it turned all the way up, Im not feelin the bottom like i think shoud be there. On the wt-800, the bass and lows are at 12 oclock.
     
  17. Yeah, I like to feel the bass too but that may be a bit extreme boosting your Lakie bass knob that much. Is the preamp clip light just flickering only when you play a note hard or is is on all the time?
     
  18. QUSP

    QUSP

    Aug 8, 2002
    Hercules, CA
    Clippin light comes on only when i play hard. Which i really dont have to do, but u know how it is when everything is sounding right and you're feelin it on stage. I dont wanna play my bass timid. Im really aggressive and i dont wanna change my style or tone.
     
  19. Well, all I can tell you is what I've experienced. I run a Crest V1100 (1400 watts @ 4ohms) into an EV 2x15 and an Eden 2x10 and I have no trouble using a smiley face EQ, but it sure sucks the power. Even when the meters are bouncing into the yellow and even though it's shaking every nail out of the building, it still doesn't seem that loud. I don't normally use that kind of an EQ because I like more mids to cut through the mix better.
     
  20. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    If your using Banana clips.....make shure you have the tab side [ ground ] on the same side for both cabinets.........If you don't, you will have a phase problem........and really be missing bass frequencys.