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help with a C7b13

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by fadlan bassman, Aug 29, 2002.


  1. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    I am learning "all the things you are" (jazz not sure who wrote it). one of the chords is a C7b13, now this is a c7 chord with a flattened 7th and added 13th? These are in fact the guitar chords but i am learning(teaching my fingers) the song for practice. as well as to get used to the chords and chord progression.

    thanks:cool:
     
  2. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    The 7th is "flatted" because it's a C7(which is C dominant 7)...& the 13th in your chord is also "flatted"("Ab" as Ed said).

    C13(1-3-5-b7-9-13) = C-E-G-Bb-D-A

    C7b13(1-3-5-b7-9-b13) = C-E-G-Bb-D-Ab

    Naturally, all those chord tones &/or extensions don't have to be played.
    One voicing I like(on a guitar)for a 13th-
    Lo-to-Hi: C-X-Bb-E-A-D
    (& the top note, "D" could be omitted).
     
  3. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    Right now I am only playing the 1,3,7 of the chords so this should translate into C E Bb Ab?
     
  4. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    I think FALLEN SPACEMAN might be reading from a sheet-music (a.k.a. - "chump changes" :) ) version of the tune...you know, the kind with the little guitar chord diagram thingies at the top? If so, he's probably referring to the last chord of the bridge and last "A" sections which is usually written as some version of C7alt, which functions as V7alt/vi in Ab. And since the tune starts on the vi chord of Ab in my little bucholic corner of the world....well, you see where I'm going with this.

    What key do you usually play this one in way up in Yankeeville?
     
  5. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Right. Although to be honest, that minor 7th on top is going to make for one really awkward guitar voicing. The C-Bb-E-Ab voicing (from the bottom up) that SPECIAL K recommended will be a lot easier to finger, and will probably sound better as well. Or, since the chord resolves to a minor chord, you could always use a C7#9 voicing on guitar, which would be easier to play (no internal string muting required, you get to play on adjacent strings 5-2) and sound just as good if not better. From the bottom up, that'd be C-E-Bb-D# (Eb)....otherwise known as the "Purple Haze" chord to those who didn't start out listening to jazz. :)
     
  6. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    no it is just the chord names written out i.e. Amaj7 D7 Gm7 so on and so forth. what is Y.A.T.A.G.?
    The first chord is a Fm7 i think that is the key.
     
  7. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    If the first chord is Fmi, then the tune is in the key of Ab, which I always thought was the standard key. But now Ed has me wondering....
     
  8. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    Did I mention that I am playing this on the bass? What is that, like All Cows Eat Grass?
     
  9. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    sorry, Chris said something about guitar voicings


    No, i was refering to the sheet reading cheat acronym. A C E G on the lines also G B D F A inbetween the lines (I'm a little rusty).

    No I don't know who plays the song, I have not ever heard it. I would like to though.

    I hope i'm not asking too silly of questions, I have gone over music theory with my teacher but some of this is deeper than we really covered. I really want to learn more about the chords and changing them around to fit the music better. I appreciate you time and knowledge.
     
  10. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    i'll check those out thanks
     
  11. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    Well I picked up a copy of 'All the Things You Are' by Stan Getz. There's no singing so maybe its not the standard version. I have the chord sheet for the song but a don't hear the chords on the bass, It sounds like these are played on the sax. does these mean I play notes from the chords in a walking pattern or am i just not hearing it.

    thanks
     
  12. fadlan bassman

    fadlan bassman

    Oct 23, 2001
    Austin,Tx
    I'm glad there is little to no sarcasm in your tone today.


    The Essential Stan getz- ATTYA : Mose Allison piano, Addison Farmer bass, Jerry Segal Drums. July 1957 New York.


    I mean you said that the song had lyrics which this song has none. I know exactly what a standard is,
    But i thought a standard would need everything including vocals to make it the standard. ie maybe a different version of the song in this instance.


    The sax sounds like it is going through the chord progession that i was looking for the bass to be doing. the bass sounds (i have only listened a couple of times) like the its going through the chords by playing the root,3rd,7th by themselves rather than plucking all at once.


    This is my fault because i did not get a copy of the song in order to ask questions about it to my instructor before stopping lessons. the way i was taught to play this song was pluck the chords in progession as per the chord sheet. I popped in the cd and i was not hearing the same notes/chords that i was playing. i hear the bass not making the chords.



    An example of the chord sheet:
    Fm7 , Bbm7 ,Eb7 ,Abmaj7
    Dbmaj7, G7, Cmaj7, Cmaj7

    That is the first 2 lines of chord progression.
    was that clear enough? thanks again for your help.
     
  13. BlacksHole

    BlacksHole

    Mar 22, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    I'd like to add a general comment on these fairly complex chords. While as a bassist in a jazz setting, you will be most likely playing a walking bass line it can also help you if you visualize how a keyboard player may approach such a chord. Is he going to just play the chord entirely with one hand? Actually, sometimes yes. But there is another way. For the C7b13, one can play a C chord with the left hand and a Bb7 with the right hand. A lot of chords with extensions can be played in a fashion like this.

    addendum: I've also played with kybd players who tended to not play the root and they may phrase this chord as a Edim triad (E G Bb) and Ddim triad (D F Ab). But this is part of the beauty of jazz - there are many ways to play this chord and many substitutions.