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Hey Lump (Our new "Pros")

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Brad Johnson, Apr 25, 2001.


  1. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    I think at least one of our latest additions to "Ask the Pros" has found a perfect spot... a forum with "Pro"-moderator control;)

    BTW lump, I really did want to know what gauntlet I had thrown down. Don't know if you got to see my response before the post was deleted.

    So much for an open exchange. Have fun.
     
  2. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
  3. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    Somebody set up us the bomb?
     
  4. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    JT, some truly silly net stuff, that's all. This was the "Watching each others back" thread. Apparently Jeff and Dann watch each others back. In the course of praising Talkbassers (which I agree wholeheartedly with), JB included, in his initial post, some characterizations of TBL'ers.

    I decided to (reluctantly) post with another point of view as to what happened repeatedly over at TBL.

    No ranting, no raving, no name-calling. I concluded by asking why they thought they needed their backs watched, this is after all music. That question was misunderstood and when I expanded on it, ignored. Dann also said that what I posted had a tad of sarcasm to it. I asked where, the question was ignored.

    The thought that we didn't need to have baggage from elsewhere was brought up. Another TB'er brought up, among other points, the fact that Jeff had brought up TBL'ers with his disparaging remarks in his opening post. Instantly, DG turned. DG tells him that he completely misunderstood and proceed to get very sarcastic with him.

    Watching my fellow TB'er's back:)D) I posted from JB's initial post the remarks in question. Dann deletes the thread.

    In other words, same s%$#, different day;)

    I honestly was not trying to goad him (too easy) and I do know that he has a short fuse. I thought I was seeing a different DG from other places I've seen his antics. Wrong. My statements were calm, lucid, sarcasm free and simple. They were taken the exact opposite way and I'm pretty sure I know why. Questions and different opinions are not tolerated by this guy. Cool. I thought, here on TB that he had calmed down and was ready to actually "talk bass".

    IMO his forum is more suited to people firmly entrenched in his camp. One Mind...sounds lovely doesn't it? Cool...that's where I'll leave it. The parallel to Rush Limbaugh is frightening;)

    The sad thing is that now that the actual thread has been deleted, what actually transpired will be spun. One step closer to martyrdom, i guess.

    I'm sure someone can correct any slants I've placed on this.

    Sorry for unleashing "that" Dann.
     
  5. Yvon

    Yvon Supporting Member

    Nov 2, 2000
    Montreal, Canada
    I guess he is talking about a fretless thread in ask the pro (Jeff Berlin)

    I think brad has been misunderstood there.
     
  6. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    i certainly agree that the TBL-bashing, while probably somewhat warranted from jeff's pov (having been an active member of TBL back when the crap happened, and a witness to the slagging that jeff endured), still probably shouldn't be here, in fact i can't imagine why it is.

    i don't know why dann is as active on this particular topic as he is. maybe something has been going down that i'm not aware of. i mean, jeff certainly doesn't need any defending, that's for sure. his body of work and accomplishments stand on their own beyond any defense possible by anyone else.

    i don't know what to think about some of the valid points you've raised.

    it is his forum, though, to do with as he pleases. his presence enriches the board, even if it carries caveats and stipulations.
     
  7. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Um...is this about Fieldy??? :D

    I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
     
  8. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    I respect the fact that it's his (and Jeff's) forum, they might as well just made it one. In this case Jeff served it up and Dann ran with it. It's so Jr. high school it's hilarious.

    As for this thread, just some mild venting on my part;)

    Everything is fine and dandy as long as you're on the same page. Being a proponent of independent thought puts me at odds there. Anyway , why shouldn't they have a little corner of TB? It's good for the board in general so...

    I won't antagonize them further.
     
  9. lump

    lump

    Jan 17, 2000
    St. Neots, UK
    Hi, Brad.

    I posted before I went to bed last night, and this morning, "poof" everything was gone. Had a feeling that might happen. I seem to always miss the excitement now that I'm on the other side of the planet. Anyway, I didn't see you response. Should I be walking with a limp? ;)

    As for the gauntlet being thrown, I think your posts in this thread speak for themselves.

    I totally agree with your philosophy of "Just because you're Famous Bass Player X, doesn't make you right." And maybe in the past, in another forum (yeah, I witnessed parts of it), that type of attitude was displayed. I guess my point is that no one has done that HERE yet (unless I missed something really juicy last night). But some of you who were involved in the other forum (you're not alone on this) seem to want to MAKE it happen here.

    I know you read the "Hey, you guys are a breath of fresh air" comments as "Hey, I found a bunch of new suckers who will kiss my @$$." There may be a grain of truth in that. But on the other hand, they will also be targeted by guys who want to pick a fight with them just because they're famous (in our little world). That's where watching each others' backs comes in, and personally, I can see where they're coming from. And like JT sez, it's their forum, they can run it any way they want, within reason. It's their turf.

    But I think we should give these guys a fair chance, and allow them to be judged by their actions on THIS BOARD. If they start wandering around in Off Topic roughing people up, we'll take care of 'em like we would anyone else. But I don't see the point in going into their forums and bringing up ancient history (although in fairness, JB started it, I guess).

    That's all I'm saying. And all I'm gonna say.

    Bowing out somewhat clumsily...
     
  10. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Originally posted by lump
    Hi, Brad.

    I posted before I went to bed last night, and this morning, "poof" everything was gone. Had a feeling that might happen. I seem to always miss the excitement now that I'm on the other side of the planet. Anyway, I didn't see you response. Should I be walking with a limp? ;)


    Absolutely not. I guess I should have saved my post;)...as I said, moderator control of their own forums is probably best for them. Leaves no evidence:D

    As for the gauntlet being thrown, I think your posts in this thread speak for themselves.

    Again, what are you specifically talking about? The thread started out with JB making cracks about TBL'ers. I didn't start that. As someone who participated in the Jaco thread and did not flame JB and was completely ignored I thought a little balance might help. If Jeff wants everyone to think he did nothing in bringing that nonsense to a head, cool. He was flamed by a very small part of TBL and chose to concentrate on that. Let's pretend.

    I only watched in amazement at the stuff with Dann on TBL. Didn't comment.

    Again, if these guys think the "martyr" suit fits them, fine. I won't point and stare.

    I totally agree with your philosophy of "Just because you're Famous Bass Player X, doesn't make you right." And maybe in the past, in another forum (yeah, I witnessed parts of it), that type of attitude was displayed. I guess my point is that no one has done that HERE yet (unless I missed something really juicy last night). But some of you who were involved in the other forum (you're not alone on this) seem to want to MAKE it happen here.

    Actually lump that's exactly what you missed. Phil Smith wrote a very non-inflammatory post pointing out that JB brought in the TBL baggage in his first post. Dann immediately got ****ty with him, told him his interpretation was 100% wrong and proceeded to get very sarcastic. He had already accused me of being a "tad sarcastic" and I asked him what he was talking about, because that was not my intent. He never addressed that. Surprise? Nope.

    After that, I quoted Dann verbatim and posted "You were saying, lump?;)" after the little tongue lashing he gave Phil's post.

    As I said, I quoted what JB said about TBL'ers, apparently Dann couldn't "see" this in JB's post. That's when the thread disappeared.

    I know you read the "Hey, you guys are a breath of fresh air" comments as "Hey, I found a bunch of new suckers who will kiss my @$$." There may be a grain of truth in that. But on the other hand, they will also be targeted by guys who want to pick a fight with them just because they're famous (in our little world). That's where watching each others' backs comes in, and personally, I can see where they're coming from. And like JT sez, it's their forum, they can run it any way they want, within reason. It's their turf.

    That's where you're wrong. I read the "Hey, you guys are a breath of fresh air" comments as "Hey, you guys are a breath of fresh air", that's all. I've posted in JB's forum with no problem, he does seem to be more even-handed here than elsewhere.

    When he started the thread, I read it and was struck with a simple question: Why does he keep bringing up TBL baggage here? In Dann's forum?

    He never responded to anything in that thread, Dann took that upon himself. But that's not what watching their backs is all about, right? Please.

    I find it funny that, if you don't agree with some of these guys or remain silent, some people think you're trying to pick a fight and usually only because someone is famous. Fine, that'll leave the forums for "sycophants and groupies". From the emails I've received some other people thought the same thing but just didn't want to mess with it. From now on neither will I

    I have opinions and experiences. I have no problem talking about them here. I have no problem talking with someone who disagrees with me (like right now;)). It's quite obvious from that thread that Dann is fine as long as people agree with him. Fine, I'll leave his forum to those people.

    But I think we should give these guys a fair chance, and allow them to be judged by their actions on THIS BOARD. If they start wandering around in Off Topic roughing people up, we'll take care of 'em like we would anyone else. But I don't see the point in going into their forums and bringing up ancient history (although in fairness, JB started it, I guess).

    So, is roughing someone up in Dann's forum okay? You missed Dann's response to Phil. I don't know who actually did see it. Here's a key point, for me: I didn't go anywhere bringing up anything. Jeff started the thread, complete with the TBL shots. It's not the first time here on TB. My original post was my take (briefly) on what happened on TBL and how it could easily be avoided here, of course that required something on their part. There appears to be even easier way to avoid it....agree with them or just be quiet. No problem. I think anyone who saw the thread learned a quick lesson...don't "mess" with them

    Constantly playing the victim gets old. Hearing what you "want" to hear instead of what is actually said gets old, too. I honestly think that any opposing POV is looked at as a slight by Dann. Cool.

    That's all I'm saying. And all I'm gonna say.

    Bowing out somewhat clumsily... [/B]

    Not clumsy at all, Lump. As I said in the deleted thread, I respect what you say and appreciate your posts. I also appreciate the kind words about me. Given that, I wanted to know what gauntlet I had thrown down. While you may think it's clear, I still don't get it. Help me out, okay?

    Thanks,
    Brad
     
  11. CS

    CS

    Dec 11, 1999
    UK
    Thought I would jump in here as it was put on the board and not a PM or e-mail.

    Brad

    The first thing to remember is that some of these 'pros' are NEWBIES. They have to go through the same process the regulars did. We all have favourites, not so favourites and the ones we cannot stand. Just because someones a pro and been asked to participate does not mean that they are a John Turner they could be a JWC (who I like by the way I just dont get involved in the hoo hah). I assess posters by what they say and give them time to reveal their true nature. Just because someone is a pro or famous player doesnt automatically mean they get my respect from me. Also a 15 yr kid like Canadian Bassman wont get flamed by me for the same (inverse?) reason even though it seemed fashionable and acceptable to do so for a while.

    I suspect that like me you dont take rubbish off anyone but tangling with a pro guest could be political suicide.

    Be gentle I am on your side (this time).
     
  12. lump

    lump

    Jan 17, 2000
    St. Neots, UK
    Jeez, what a mess.

    Okay, if I must be totally blunt, I DO think you were trying to pick a fight. There is no specific line in your original post I can quote that led me to that conclusion (and I can't go back to it, because it's NOT THERE ANYMORE ;)), but the overall tone was that of a challenge. And despite your claims that it's all just friendly discussion, I don't think you'd have been satisfied until it degraded into a shouting match.

    As always, I could be wrong. ;)

    Maybe these guys ARE d!ck$. I don't know. I'm just a mediocre musician with a big mouth. All I know is what I read here. But it seems to me that a better strategy would be to let them prove their d!ckishness on their own, rather than provoke a fight based on sh!t that didn't even happen here. I know that the way you see it, they started it, but that's not how I see it. And I don't think anyone who wasn't actively involved in TBL does either.

    My disagreement with you on this point doesn't diminish my respect for you as a player one iota. But I do most respectfully disagree.

    Okay, NOW I'm done.
     
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I must say I agree entirely with lump and the more recent posts in the same thread make even me feel ashamed! I wouldn't be suprised if after the latest round of personal attacks that Dan decides to bow out and I hope that that will make Brad feel proud of his achievement - and all because he deleted one of your posts! :rolleyes:

    There seems to be a trend around here for picking fights with anybody who is a "name" in the industry and it makes me feels ashamed - I thought we would be happy to have people like this around, rather than a load of 14/15 year olds who haven't played outside of their bedroom - but maybe they are easier to beat in arguments?

    I agree with CS (!) that these people are "newbies" to TB and as such we should be making them feel welcome at first - once they have "bedded in", then I think you could asume that they are comfortable with the setup, but to be positively hostile, just seems to be ungrateful in the extreme to me.
     
  14. CS

    CS

    Dec 11, 1999
    UK

    :)
     
  15. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    I suggested that the TBL bashing was unneccesary here. Apparently you think it was, Bruce. Right? Fine.:rolleyes:

    I'm not ashamed of anything I've said. Period. I'm sure Dann was "forced" to misinterpret and flame as he did. Not just me either.

    This is not about him deleting any post of mine. Seriously Bruce, if you don't know what happened at least get informed first:rolleyes:. If you want to continue to assume, go ahead. It won't be the first time there's been a "misunderstanding".

    He deleted the entire thread, after saying Phil Smith was 100% incorrect in his "interpretation" of what Jeff had said. I posted what Jeff said and it was exactly what Phil had talked about. Then poof.

    Bruce, I am proud of what I contribute here. Some people see some value in it. If you see my participation in this forum as anything more or less than that, fine. I'll live.

    After all, Dann likes you...you agree with him. God help you when you don't. That may never happen, of course:rolleyes:

    Brad
     
  16. CS

    CS

    Dec 11, 1999
    UK
    And the point?

    You know Bruce will defend himself eloquently. There are people on this site that can win an argument even though they are wrong (thats aimed at more than one person)(and me). So lets leave it here and avoid people that bug us and keep the list down (ie not squabble).

    Chris-who has disagreed with just about everyone on this site at some point.
     
  17. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    The point is that it didn't have to be an argument.

    BTW eloquence has zip to do with completely missing the point and not knowing what's going on;)

    Now he's fretting that I may have run Dann away. To that I enter this plea:

    Please Dann, don't go! Do whatever you want here, it's cool.

    Okay:D

    Thanks,
    Brad
     
  18. Boplicity

    Boplicity Supporting Member

    What is a TBLer?

    jo
     
  19. Jennifer

    Jennifer

    Jul 31, 2000
    Erie, Illinois
    JO- I think TBL is another forum where things got out of hand. I didn't see the problem that they are discussing here, but I don't ever recall Brad trying to pick fights with anyone here before, seems out of character to me. But like I said, I wasn't there.
     
  20. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    It's another site, The Bottom Line, an older site. The clunky post/reply format keeps me from participating, although, you can find good content if you can suffer the user unfriendliness.