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Hi-Fi 3/2 Way rig (8" is enough).

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by spode master, Sep 14, 2008.


  1. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Hi all starting a new thread, on my custom bass/key/electric drumset/ etc. Rig.

    If anyone wants to look back at the old thread or missed it the first time check here.

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454920

    So here we are.

    I am in the proving stage of my Hi-Fi Extended range Bass rig.

    Beefy1.

    Beefy2.

    First impression's

    This rig is very clean. I think because of its lack of distortion you don't get a good sense of how loud it really is.

    I have not tested it in a live situation yet so I don't know what to expect. I think it will actually cut through very well. But maybe not aggressive enough for Metal bass without some sort of modeling pedal in front of it.

    My Ibanez BTB is very has flexible tones. Its a lot of fun to play through this rig. The 18V Bartollini Pups + Pre's are nice. Easy to overload the head if you don't set you amp gain to cope with the available bass boost.

    The one drawback about this design with tweeter (no bypass or gain control). If I push the SVT pro3 to the edge and clip a little you can hear the amp clip crackling out of the tweeter. I think things would sound a little kinder if I were pushing a tube head Vs. a solid state head.

    Also these speakers tone don't really change much (fatten) with how hard you push them, so its easy to push them to the point of amp clip. But over all. If you want a clean sound with tons of attack and is tight and punchy and capable of HUGE clean bottom. This rig delivers!

    I have a little more tweaking to do with the limiters in my Digital amp/xovers but I think I have a very solid flexible rig on my hands.

    I haven't taken any official weights on these things but...

    The 4X12 is HEAVY each 12 weighs about 22lbs, the box probably weighs about 50lbs, so it maybe about 150lbs at the end of the day. But I built them to be rugged and fairly leak free.

    I went a little over kill with the 2x8 boxes I should have built them with 1/2" instead of 3/4" ply they weigh almost 40lbs?

    I just saw a guy haul a Mesa Boogie cab with 1 15 and 4 10's in one box so I guess I'm not to nuts with my design. That Mesa Cab is massive!!!!

    So What do you guys think???

    Anyone in the SF bay area want to try it out once I do my finishing work.

    Oh yah I'm still thinking of calling the rig "Mr Beefy" Anyone else have any ideas?
     
  2. iammr2

    iammr2

    Jun 10, 2002
    Tejas
    I hope you know how hard it is to ask questions of anyone with a name like "spode master". What's that mean anyway?

    I was curious as to the components, but looked at your link and got that info. You do some great woodwork. Do you build all your own? What about the wires sticking out of the top box? Jack not installed yet? What finish are you going to put on them, or are you? I think they look great as plain wood. I can't hear them but if they sound like they look, it'll be great. I'll be interested to hear your impressions after you've had them a while. The only killer here that I can see is the weight. See ya' at the gym later?

    Oh yeah, those pics in the other thread. Red plaid skirt with a yellow mop hair wig? The fashion police will be after you. I hope you find a way to get that weight down. It's going to kill you at 3:00am in the morning. But really, they look COOL.
     
  3. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Hah hah hah,

    Spode is a type of cream colored ceramic (I think its British). Truth Be told, I first saw the word Spode used in a Traci Lords film called "Future Voyer" when I was like 15 or 16 :ninja: . I've used that name online for over a decade.

    This is the first time I did recessed routing, I'm pretty much self taught. For this batch I had someone with a truer table saw make my main cuts. I did the large dual 12 cabs also (My first project ever very ambitious).

    I guess these are cabinets 10 and 11, that I designed from the ground up and built. Personally I'm not that great. I get impatient, and bad mistakes sometimes, so far nothing un recoverable, but let me tell you. I don't think I'll EVER try pre sinking T-nuts again unless the holes they go in are computer cut and precise. Cross threading is a night mare.

    I am not a very fast worker and I don't really want to be a production cabinet builder. I will pay a CNC shop to do it for me if I have to do a bunch.

    I have a huge Xover design panel set up behind the rig, the wires come from the 8's and the tweeter.

    www.jsxaudio.com

    has a photo

    The finish is going to be Duratex (African Violet) With Black steel Corners, and black nylon grill. Rubber feet. (If I sell these I will have the option of any color available from the Sherwin Williams Paint 6000 series pigment for an additional 70$ and you can keep the extra if you want)

    The 4X12 Sub is going to have Tilt back Casters ( and has some steel recessed handles on the side. Probably some slider plastic on the sub rear.

    Oh yes 1/2 round on the cabinet edges all around (except the sub bottom 1/4 round for the casters).

    This project has eaten all of my free time, but I will be getting back to the gym after its done (just so I can move this thing)!!!!

    That was a fun halloween! Whats even better I was a guest lead guitarist for an all Girl punk rock band that night!!!

    As for the weight I pray that Eminence decides to make a NEO version of the Lab12. The world would thank them.

    Antone-
     
  4. Is the 4x12 cab ported at all?
     
  5. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Fairly leak free? I don't know, Spode, I'd be doing everything I could to make sure they're completely leak free, otherwise that clean tone will sound like someone put a set of keys on top of it ;)

    Looks good, though, albeit WAAAAAAAAY too heavy ;)
     
  6. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Yah its leak free except I think one of the steel handles I have has a leak in the actual handle. Its quite small.

    To Ashtray:

    No, no porting. Its a sealed sub .707Q sort of a linkwitz transform circuit, or ELF (look that up if you want).

    And actually it can be desire able for a sealed sub to have pinholes (normally in the back) to help equalize pressure since there is nowheres for the heat radiated off the coil to go. And we all know what happens to warm air. The drivers will be Biased outward if there is no pressure equalization.

    I hope and pray for Neo Versions of the Lab 12. That said hopefully the tilt back casters work well the cab is only about 30" tall so it may be weird wheeling it around. For short stages putting sliders on the back will make it manageable for one person. But tall stages two people or one trained gorilla.

    I just mixed a small stage at a BBQ cook off blues festival and saw a dude with one of those MESA 400 watt tube heads, and a Mesa Cab with 4 10's and a 15 with a tweeter. It weighs around 150lbs so some people are willing to deal with something BEEFY. His band mates helped him up the stage (homeboy only weighed about 150lbs).

    My main concern is this is not a cheap rig, to build the only people I would expect to buy some thing like this are the people who buy instruments like Alembics. The top box I think can be almost competative with any 2X10 with a tweeter, maybe a little more than the average model, but worth it to the right type of player.

    I'm just glad its almost over.

    I can start playing again.
     
  7. CrackBass

    CrackBass

    Aug 10, 2004
    huntsville,AL
    no neo lab, but eminence is coming out with the 3012lf (the 12" version of the 3015lf) rumors are it will be this winter. it should be quite the driver. it might not compete with the lab for sheer sub bass but it should have a ton more efficiency in the 45-100hz area and enough x-max to take its full thermal rating (probably 350-450 watts)

    as far as the lab i wouldn't hold your breath. eminence has already discontinued the hl10c.

    btw for duratex, bondo works wonders for prep.
     
  8. iammr2

    iammr2

    Jun 10, 2002
    Tejas
    Thanks for the reply Antone. You're doing what I wanted to do about 15 years ago and never finished.

    I scanned over the rest of the other thread. You talked about your TL606's and and how they were even and flat until the "dreadful rolloff". Please explain that comment to me please. I've heard lots of TL606 style cabs that I thought sounded great.

    Also, isn't that an Alembic in post #49?

    Good work!
     
  9. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Did I say "Dreaded Roll Off"? Yeah they really don't have much above 3kHZ. The thing I like least about them is if you push them and the amp (I think if you clip) the 15Ls promptly run out of XMAX and make a banging crackling noise like shorting a large capacitor bank. I think this is the voice coil hitting the keeper plate. Otherwise they don't sound bad. Just not much extension up high or down low, sorta old school. I think they sound extra full because they generate lots of distortion, since they really don't have much Xmax, and also some cone breakup.

    Yes that is my Mark King, custom 5 string with a Triple Omega cut body, and Aniversery Electronics, and 35" Neck. Its a fantastic Bass but It is a back breaker I got the Ibanez because I needed a reasonable practice bass (3 Hour rehersals with the Alembic MURDER!). I'm about ready to Slap some Elixers on that bad boy.
     
  10. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    I'm pretty sure the Lab is great seller for Eminence so I don't think its going anywhere, but lighter would be sooooo nice.

    I am the king of Raw Polysester. Love Huffing Bondo!!!!
     
  11. CrackBass

    CrackBass

    Aug 10, 2004
    huntsville,AL
    i wasn't hinting that the lab was going to be discontinued, but it's a pretty specific design geared towards the lab-horn. as the neo craze goes on i imagine it will eventually fall by the wayside (probably years from now though) i'm curious, did consider 4012ho's when designing your sub box, or was sub-30hz the biggest consideration. i'm not knocking your design by any means, just trying to get a feel for your design goals.

    we obviously have vastly different requirements for bass rigs, but it is refreshing to see the occasional builder really do his homework and go no holds barred with an original design. (if anything in speaker design is truly original)

    btw i have used probably a ton of bondo, but i have yet to put any an a car.
     
  12. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Truth Be told, I also wanted this sub to be useful in Home cinema/ or posting room LFE and or Studio monitor subs as well.

    111dB @ 20Hz might not cut it for live bass but no normal bass goes that low anyhow.

    The way I'm setting the limiters on the amp the Sub Bass boost will limit seperately from the 50Hz -> section. of the circuit too.

    Also this will be an awesome synth rig... Fairly flexible.

    Funny I never used Bondo on a car either!! :smug:

    I don't think NEO is going anywhere anytime soon for PA drivers, unless it starts getting cost prohibitive like Alnico when the source for cobalt wasn't very reliable.
     
  13. CrackBass

    CrackBass

    Aug 10, 2004
    huntsville,AL
    actually i meant the lab would go away eventually. neo is the way of the future and whatever replaces it may not even be a speaker in the traditional sense. that technology has gone so far it is getting to the point that making a significant advance is quite dificult. years ago i had an idea that speakers of the future would have electromagnets. now i think it will be small flux capacitors powered by mr. fusions, but they will be neo flux capacitors.

    and for home theatre the design makes total sense.
     
  14. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Oh yah I mis read that.

    Not too much new on the LF department. Theres the Thigpen Fan woofer, and the Tymphany LAT.

    My hopes is that there are some good High output HF transducer developments.

    Didn't the original speakers have Electromagnets. With a little ever present 60 cycle hum....

    Now thats a real vintage sound!
     
  15. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    I've got an ancient Gibson guitar amp here that has a field coil speaker. I've never been brave enough to fire it up and see how it sounds though.

    Digging your newest build there, bro.
     
  16. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    Hitting some glitches with my digital amp, but I finally got to push the limits of this rig!!!!

    Awesome!!!!

    Here are some sweeps of the rig (lots of room reflection) for those interested.

    MrBeefyPreliminary.

    Perhaps I should xover at 200Hz instead of 80....
     
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Why is that, Charlie? Fire hazard? ;)
     
  18. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Could well be...the caps in that thing are 67 years old for starters.:eek: Fully restoring an ancient 8 watt geetar amp just hasn't beckoned me into the shop yet.:p

    Ted Weber had a variable field coil speaker project going a few years ago. Never heard if anything came out of that though. It seemed like a cool idea, since you could theoretically change a driver's damping and stuff like that with the twist of a knob or two.
     
  19. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I see your point. Probably would sound good, but I imagine it wouldn't be a match for the amps of the 50's tonally.
     
  20. spode master

    spode master

    Jan 21, 2007
    I'm in the home Stretch.

    I always forget how labor intensive cabinet building is. Jigs and clamps and routers brad shooters and sanding, and filling, and sanding and filling and sanding.

    All in my free time after work...

    I haven't practiced much in almost 2 months. I'll be the crappiest bassist, with the most awesome rig.

    BeefyFinish_crop.

    BeefyRearFinish_crop.

    BeefyPurple_crop.

    I'm so glad its almost done!!!!