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High efficency 12 or 15 driver that goes to 5000hz

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Magman, Feb 19, 2008.


  1. I've just realised (based on my direct recording and mixing practices and how I EQ my full range rig) that I really don't need much response above 5k....a nice steep roll off is just fine after that. Tweeters are a pain (hiss).

    Anything less than flatish to 4 or 5k is too dull for me though. A roll off at 2k is too low. 900-5k seems to be critical for tone and cut.

    The mid drivers in my carvin 1523 are nice...but....For my backup rig...or quiet gigs....and recording... I think I just need a single 12 or 15 high efficiency that has a nice musical quality, and runs from say 60--5000k, a gentle peak at 2k would be ok as well.

    Looking for a bright vintage tone as it were.

    I'm contemplating a bill fitzmaurice omni top with it in as well....ONCE I've found and tested the driver in a normal cab.

    Any suggestions?

    Eminence have a couple (kappa 12A and one or two 15's) I've seen whose response patterns look suitable - but that doesn't say much about a particular speakers tone though.

    Off axis response another consideration. A 15 would be nice for the bass response in standalone situations.

    Anyway needlessly turning an essay here.

    TIA
     
  2. amos

    amos

    Oct 23, 2003
    SE Portland Oregon
    I'm confused, you want a 12" or 15" 1-way cab or you want to build an Omni top? When I get around to designing and possibly building a custom cab it will probably be a bi-ampable 15" w/ 2-8" drivers. A good 8 will go to 5k, removing the need for a tweeter.
     
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    High efficency 12 or 15 driver that goes to 5000hz ?

    Realistically, none exist. Some guitar drivers go that high, but only on-axis. With any useful off-axis response 3kHz is about the useful limit.
     
  4. Parts Express wholesale contacted me on Monday about the 8" drivers. The new Eminence Delta Pro 8B (16-ohm) are not yet available to PE. The rep commented about how 16-ohm drivers are getting a lot more interest.

    Two of the 8B in parallel are a perfect match for a 3015LF. I want to build one of these for myself, but cannot get the 8B drivers unless I buy a lot of 50.
     
  5. bag end advertises that their 12" cabs go to 5kHz, but that's the edge of their freq. response...i have no idea how realistic that is, though
     
  6. I was considering a one way OT...(for higher efficiency) ... but to first select and test a driver that had the freq response I am after in a normal cab before proceeding with the build.



     
  7. Ok.

    So the 6 or 8's route seems the way to go then.

    Given that the 400-5000hz range is the critical voicing area (at least for my bass tone) it makes sense to have this handled by a
    single driver (so no crossover point at 2k or 3k....right at one of the key harmonic points).

     
  8. How do 18inch drivers behave when run two way up to say 500hz?

    (I suppose I can just try it and find out!)

    The Peavey 1810 cab had a similar approach (18 and 10's crossed over at 500hz).... I think there was a 1516 which was a 15 inch driver and 2 8's also.

    The basic design idea seems very sound.

    There are probably some of those cabs kicking around cheap ready for upgrading drivers/crossover, though they may be heavy due to materials.

    So far in my experience...nothing quite seems to kick the lowend
    out in the 30-60hz region quite like an 18.

    I had one idea for a top box which would be an array of 8's or 6's, and just use a 2 way electronic crossover with a stereo power amp - running the lows to my subs (which are relatively compact). Maybe I'll return to this idea. The box shouldn't be terribly big.

    Thanks for the input all.

     
  9. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    The Eighteen Sound 10NDA610 does a rather fine job from 100 - 6000Hz, though it'll need something else to carry the bottom. Although its impedance compensation increases treble sensitivity above the norm for a 10" it will get rather beamy in the upper reaches.

    Lots of info including on and off-axis plots here:

    http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=241

    Combined with a couple of 15"s to carry the lows and a nice compression tweeter for the highest highs it would make a frightening biamped cab.

    Alex
     
  10. lazyone2

    lazyone2

    Jul 27, 2006
    new jersey shore
    I know you only asked about speakers but I think the EA WIZZY may be what you are looking for. The duel cone driver does extend the upper mid range. There is no sparkle on top. If your looking for an old school Motown kind of sound this could be it.

    PAT
     
  11. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004
    You could look for a coax, and put a secondary crossover on the top into a dummy load to filter out the hiss. It's better and cheaper to prevent hiss from getting to the amp and speaker in the first place. You could put a low pass filter between the preamp and amp or in the effects loop if it's a head.
     
  12. That might be a bit too dull for me....3-5000hz gives a nice sparkle, sharpness and edge.... but on overdriven tones is still smoothed out with all the junk above that filtered out.

    Off axis response important as well... current 210 I use on backup rig is too beamy.

     
  13. How come the frequency plots show a rapid drop off below 500hz or so? I've noticed this with a lot of the 18sound plots....
    seems like they are measuring different than emminence (whose driver show flatter plots in this region)?

    Looking at that graph, crossing over at say 120hz looks like it would leave a gap in the lower mids.

    I could actually just drop those in my current 210.

    I'd probably need four 15's or 18s to keep up though! They look damn loud.

    Beaminess... my current 210 (eminence deltas) IS too beamy, at least onstage. I'll look at the plots for that and compare to the 18sound.

    I've noticed that a speakers resonant peak prior to rolloff often has the most reductionin offaxis response....in inverse proportion to the size of the peak. This presumably adds to the death-ray effect. Wonder why that is though.

     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Eminence measures all its speakers mounted in a huge infinite baffle enclosure whilst 18 Sound measure theirs in a variety of enclosures. Plot that enclosure's response, note how it matches their plot in the lows/low-mids and then choose an enclosure size/tuning that gets you the response you want in the lower frequencies.


    Not if you're running them fullrange! And you'll only ever need one of these, they are that loud.

    I've noticed that too - maybe the break up peak is radiated from the whole cone hence it beams but then higher frequencies come from the dust cap and are thus better dispersed?

    You might like to consider the 18 Sound 6ND410 over a nice 12" or 15".

    Alex
     
  15. They would not be full range... I use an EQ as crossover to roll of the bottom.

    My current 210 would be torn to pieces otherwise - especially on dubby tones.

    I may get a proper rack crossover though for cleaner sound, and experimenting with crossover points.

    As for loudness... more efficiency less amp needed. But yes, the thought of a 410 with these in is scary.

    Could you go into a bit more detail into how to plot an 18sounds driver response in an enclosure?.... I use winISD....

    I put in the TS params and then design a box like 18sound did, and see what the curve is like?

    Thanks for your guidance BTW. I find this stuff fascinating and seem to have become a speaker nerd over the past few years, as well as a low frequency addict. Audiences like feeling it though.










     
  16. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Exactly! Thought I prefer WinISD Pro as it has additional plots that really help like cone excursion, port air velocity, etc.

    Alex
     
  17. And that expensive!

    240 bucks jeeze :)

    I suppose though, as loud as 2 100 bucks tens.

    A 2x18 setup with a single ten in little box on top.... kinda funny but it may just work!!

     

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