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History buffs (specifically WW 2 ) Help!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Timbo, Apr 5, 2006.


  1. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004
    So my history teacher decides to assign us three essays tonight due tomorrow. Egads. So I decided I'd see if I could tap in the TB information basin. One of the essays that I'm struggling with the most is outline the grand strategy of the western allies during WW II. That part is easy, but then it asks why stalin objected to it. Anyone know per chance and feel like letting me in on the secret?
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact may have something to do with it.
     
  3. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004
    I'll look it up. Appreciate it man!
     
  4. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    San Jose, CA
    i'll be back after DMV and type some info up for you... 18 minz till it closes...
     
  5. kjones

    kjones

    Dec 4, 2004
    Maryland
    Well, part of the grand strategy was to go island hopping against Japan, and only strike at the peripherary of the German sphere (Africa, Italy, etc.). Once Germany invaded the Soviet Union, Stalin wanted immediate Western front direct pressure, such as a D-Day in 1942, to relieve the German offensive. The Western Allies felt they were unable to properly mount such a massive undertaking, and thought that direct pressure that led to a military disaster wouldn't be a good thing in the long run, although it might alleviate some problems in the short run.
     
  6. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004
    Kjones.. You are a god. Thank you so much.
     
  7. To elaborate on what Kjones said, it has to do with Russia having it's own problems. Stalin never wanted to get involved in the war, but Hitler was an idiot and decided to take them on.

    Russia kept getting pushed back and pushed back, until they reached Stalingrad. Now, we all know the horror stories about Stalingrad, so I won't go into them. But the fact remains that the only reason the Nazis lost there was 2 factors:

    1) Russian Determination

    and

    2) Winter. Hitler listend to a soothsayer, who said that it would be a mild winter. So he never sent them good cold-weather gear. Instead, it was one of the worst on record, and it froze the Nazis out.

    Because the Russians were faced with what seemed the iminant fall of Stalingrad, followed by Moscow, they wanted all the help they could get. But since the western allies were busy trying to extricate Rommel from Africa and Mussolini from Italy, they didn't have any resources to try and draw off Nazi forces from the eastern front. It wasn't till after the sinking of the Bismark and the destruction of the U-boat packs that they really started to consider a land invasion. By that time, the Russians had gained the upper hand, and were busy pushing back from the east.

    At least she didn't assign you an essay on why WW1 started. You would be a dead man. It's more confusing than tax statements.

    Rock on
    Eric
     
  8. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    San Jose, CA
    The problem with history of Russia is you never know. In late years there been talk that Stalin might have been planning to attack Germany year later. As of now I don’t trust that theory but it is out there and as insane Stalin was i can believe it.

    Main problem with Hitler attacking Soviet Union was Italy. The plan was to attack Soviet Union as spring started, but because Italy got involved in Ethiopia Hitler had to bail them out and the attack was delayed so time they needed before winter was not there. I am in doubt that Hitler could have done what he wanted to but surely he would have done much more damage.
     
  9. this is what i know and some of what i don't know from my AP US history class...It's history ...ick not my strongest.

    Germany First, Island Hopping, Two Front war on Germany...I just realized thats the easy part

    Maybe Stalin didn't want to have to deal with both places at the same time while the Allies were fighting MAINLY Germany. Has to do with Russia's Location touching Europe and also near Japan.
     
  10. Minger

    Minger

    Mar 15, 2004
    Rochester, NY
    Times like this I seriously wish they taught a Military History course in high school - I'd love to take it right now, and my tech teacher actually majored in it...he brings it up, and the idea got shot down pretty quick.
     
  11. Russia and Japan never really went at it. Japan was more concerned with the islands and China. Sure, Australia had a lot to worry about (with good reason) but I don't think that the island hopping plan was really ever a viable option for putting allied forces at Germany's back door. Japan was far too heavily entrenched. Look how hard it was to dig them out AFTER the Nazi's surrendered and we could devote our full attention to them.

    If I ever become a teacher, I'm gonna teach history. And dammit, my kids are going to learn it and love it!!

    Rock on
    Eric
     
  12. kjones

    kjones

    Dec 4, 2004
    Maryland
    Eric, what are you doing giving history advice, shouldn't you be on a flight to Adelaide?


    BTW, I agree with you. The island hopping was a strategy to eliminate Japanese strategic positions, then eventually Japanese economic holdings (oil in the Dutch East Indies, etc.), as well as forming bases to permit the strategic bombing campaign against the homeland.
     
  13. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004

    Already had that. Rise of militarism/nationalism/etc. Bismark duping france into attack them, Austria-hungary's vice chancellor or something being assassinated by serbian terrorists and causing a local war etc.. and god that was horrible.
     
  14. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    San Jose, CA
    On to original question:

    Soviet Union was isolationist after the revolution of 1917 and coming of communist dictatorship. The main fear for them was capitalism. I think deep inside they realized that the ideals of capitalism could have destroyed their power. If you read Marx he clearly states that capitalism is a must in order to build communism. He states that communism is not alternative to capitalism but replacement of it, something that follows but it must have foundation to stand on. Russia however unlike Germany, Britain, United States, France did not have any trace of capitalism in its history. It was undeveloped, unstable, and hunger was common (see Ukrainian famine in 1923 where 2+ million people were starved to death by Stalin. Lenin was not dead yet but he was close and Stalin was pretty much running things by then). Lenin in 1921 tried to implement similar to capitalist system to patch up the missing peace called NEP (New Economic Policy) but as soon as he died Stalin kill the plan. So I think he was just afraid of loosing power and he saw capitalism as something that will weaken his power.

    Soviet Union and Germany, even though ideology was completely opposite shared a lot in common. They were both brutal military dictatorship (even though Hitler was voted into power), they both had concentration camp system, and both executed people for no reason. I think Stalin thought that capitalism is a bigger enemy to communism and his idea was that Hitler will be occupied with taken care of West and he will wait. This is similar position some people took in United States when Soviet Union was attacked. I believe it was Truman who said that we should wait and see who was weaker out of two and feed weaker side with support until they start to win, and then we start feeding the other side. This way they will exterminate each other.

    Also you can write a lot about Stalin not knowing what he is doing because of how paranoid he was, he was really a crazy man, for instance when Germany attacked Soviet Union Stalin disappeared for 2 weeks and no one knew what to do as the leader, the guy who controlled everything lost it and no one knew where he was or what to do. Before the war Stalin killed most of his commander staff because he was paranoid. Even after the war started he kept killing his greatest commanders. There is a quote somewhere that when Stalin asked “where are we going to get commanders that can win this” he was answered “Gulags”. The man clearly did not trust anyone and that played big part in him not trusting the west.

    You can also use to demonstrate how unfit he was; his wife killed herself because she was basically afraid how Stalin will do it. His son when captured by Germans killed himself because he was afraid of what will happen to him once Stalin gets his hands on him.

    Hope some of this helps… I will think of more reason and post later on.
     
  15. canopener

    canopener

    Sep 15, 2003
    Isle of Lucy
    Yes, this is a tough one. Especially since there is hardly any information available on WWII. There definitely isn't any information on the Internet.
     
  16. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004
    Did you come here to bust my chops or be helpful? Seeing as my time is a bit limited because I also have a biology paper to write and a test in another subject tomorrow, ( partly procrastination partly not ) being able to ask help from people instead of having to scan information for a couple hours on the net to find the information I'm looking for made sense to me. But obviously it was a fool hearty mistake. Sorry for wasting the sites bandwidth.

    /is frusterated with overload of homework... but just a couple more days I'm free for spring break woohoo!
     
  17. Timbo

    Timbo

    Jun 14, 2004
    I seriously can't thank you guys enough.
     
  18. xcental34x

    xcental34x

    Feb 28, 2003
    Memphrica, TN
    Can anyone tell me rule #1 of world domination?
     
  19. xcental34x

    xcental34x

    Feb 28, 2003
    Memphrica, TN
    Don't invade Russia in the winter.
     
  20. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    San Jose, CA
    #1 rule of world domination is dont talk about world domination. Wise fight club! Also see what happened to pinky and the brain... they always talking about it... never did it...
     

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